Client's customer wants work done out of hours

[magicbuttons]

I install software remotely on my client's customer's sites as part of my current contract. One customer wants this work doing out of hours. It's a one off, will take the equivalent of half a day, and will be in addition to my day's work at the client site.

If my client were bearing the cost I'd simply charge half my usual day rate for the extra hours - I get on well with them and know that flexibility will be reciprocated - but they are asking me what my charges will be and passing on the cost to their customer.

Not having any experience with this sort of thing, I don't know what to charge or who to charge it to. Any suggestions? Time and a half? If I add it to my agent invoice, should the agent get their usual cut for something they haven't played a part in? If not, what's the best way round that?

[TestMangler]

Forgetting your clients customer for a second, if you were doing it for your client, what would you charge ?

I think you probably already answered that in your O/P, so what is the difficulty ?

On to your invoicing. How do you normally bill your client ? Add it to that !!

[FiveTimes]

If paid daily then they could suggest that there is no charge. However I would charge an extra half day and add this to your normal invoice.

Like wise if you are paid hourly then just invoice the extra hours.

[d000hg]

If it's on top of a normal day and is late at night, I'd suggest a day's rate as an initial position. But a half-day extra money for a long day isn't bad.

[magicbuttons]

If I were doing it for my client, I'd charge usual rate. As it's for their customer, who I don't have a contract with, it's more complicated. Let's say I suggest usual rate and a half. For a half day, this would add up to invoicing my agent an extra 0.75 days. My agent then pays me £X, invoices my client £X + 20%, my client invoices their customer £X + 20%.

My questions, broken down, are:

• Why should the agent get the +20% on that 0.75 days? They've played no part other than processing the money, and AFAIK it's no harder to process 5.75 days than it is 5 days.
• Can I, or should I, invoice my client directly? Or even conceivably invoice their customer directly?
• Does rate and a half sound reasonable for something like this in general?

[TheFaQQer]

If I were doing it for my client, I'd charge usual rate. As it's for their customer, who I don't have a contract with, it's more complicated. Let's say I suggest usual rate and a half. For a half day, this would add up to invoicing my agent an extra 0.75 days. My agent then pays me £X, invoices my client £X + 20%, my client invoices their customer £X + 20%.

OK, so you want 1.5 time for the extra half a day, rather than just billing for the time. That's fair enough, as long as they will pay it. What you don't want is to get into a situation where the client says that they pay for a professional working day, and this is part of it, so you get nothing extra. Personally, I'd do it at half a day (if that's what it will take) rather than charging extra for it.

My questions, broken down, are:

Why should the agent get the +20% on that 0.75 days? They've played no part other than processing the money, and AFAIK it's no harder to process 5.75 days than it is 5 days.

Because that's what the contract says. You bill agency for the work you do, and agency factors the payment and invoices the client. If it was just about the work that they do, then they would get an upfront bonus and small percentage throughout the contract. But they don't.

Can I, or should I, invoice my client directly? Or even conceivably invoice their customer directly?

You have no contract with the client. You have a contract with the agency - what does that say about going direct? What does the contract between client and agency say about you going direct?

I would expect that the client will charge the customer for the installation costs. This probably bears no relation to the rate that you are charging. If you are significantly cheaper than the rate, then the customer will be pissed off with the client (who will then be pissed off with you) because you have shown how much they are overcharged by the client. If you are more expensive (maybe the client does it for free, or sucks up the cost themselves, who knows!) then you will piss off the customer by overcharging.

Going direct to the customer (even if it's allowed by the contract) is a lose-lose situation for you.

Does rate and a half sound reasonable for something like this in general?

It's business - who decides what is reasonable and what isn't? Personally, I wouldn't charge extra for it, but that's just me (and a few others in this thread).

[northernladuk]

<snip>

It's business - who decides what is reasonable and what isn't? Personally, I wouldn't charge extra for it, but that's just me (and a few others in this thread).

I wouldn't either and +1 to everything else TF says here even if his grammar and spelling is annoyingly correct.

[magicbuttons]

OK, it seems the general consensus is just to charge the normal rate. That seems fair enough, I was just looking for opinions on that as I haven't been in this position before, and TF's annoyingly correct spelling and grammar has swayed me

I think I'll simply add half a day to my invoice and get the client to charge the customer what they pay the agent for half a day.

Thanks all.

[Wanderer]

Why should the agent get the +20% on that 0.75 days? They've played no part other than processing the money, and AFAIK it's no harder to process 5.75 days than it is 5 days.

That's the way it works. The harder you work the more money they make. Great, isn't it! To be fair, part of their percentage covers the cost of factoring the payments.

BTW, if they are taking 20% of the contract value then you should look to negotiating this down to 10% at renewal time...

[jmo21]

What you don't want is to get into a situation where the client says that they pay for a professional working day, and this is part of it, so you get nothing extra. Personally, I'd do it at half a day (if that's what it will take) rather than charging extra for it.

my client could take a running jump if they think "professional day" equals a day and a half.

For me, professional day = 7.5 hours (sometimes 8 depending on client, factored into rate of course).

Anything else gets billed, and if overnight or something like, we start talking 1.5 * rate (except for the odd couple of extra hours here and there that I take in lieu, I don't mind doing that).