Should you appear desperate for redundancy?

[northernladuk]

Find what your redundancy is first. You can't make a decision about anything until then. Forget it all for now until you get that all important number. No point tying yourself up in knots until you know how much for.

If they are going to make you redundant they will go through with it wether you fall to the floor sobbing uncontrollably or you take your top off and run around whooping. It isn't an option in most cases.

The thing you want to worry about more is 14 years makes you very expensive to make redundant so they are going to think long and hard about how they can keep you and make the other 2 guys you work with who have 2 years between em.

[SussexSeagull]

Without knowing exactly what you do it is hard to comment on potential demand but although the contractors next to you are no doubt on a good whack (although if you have seen an agency invoice remember the agent takes a cut) they get no paid holidays, pension or other benefits.

You no doubt have the skills to do the job but he 'soft' skills are quite different. You need to develop the mental toughness to look for a new contract every six months (obviously this varies) and to be able to sit on the bench watching the money evaporate then smile sweetly an interview you need to get through to pay next month's mortgage.

Potentially you will wave goodbye to home on a Monday morning and come back Friday evening.

When they need to get rid of you, you will be first in the queue.

Also throw in the great unknown at the moment, the economy.

Having said that the rewards can be big and if you prefer actually doing the job to playing the game it is quote liberating but don't think for a minute the decision is a no brainet.

[Peejay]

But of course someone who really does have that contractor mentality would take the contract while still taking the permie wage and pushing for redundo cash?*

*this is probably illegal, although I would have a good look at your employment contract to be sure. Neither v8gaz nor ContractorUK condone breaking any laws or contracts.

Definitely a para in the contract saying "You may not in any capacity or manner whatsoever be personally employed or engaged or interested in any commercial enterprise other than the business of the Company, except where it is expressly permitted in writing by the Company."

Wow, so I'm not even allowed to be "interested" in any commercial enterprise! :-|

(I had considered the idea

[tractor]

..

Definitely a para in the contract saying "You may not in any capacity or manner whatsoever be personally employed or engaged or interested in any commercial enterprise other than the business of the Company, except where it is expressly permitted in writing by the Company."

Wow, so I'm not even allowed to be "interested" in any commercial enterprise! :-|

(I had considered the idea

I think the phrase has a legal meaning as in 'invested in'

[d000hg]

Maybe spend all your time learning new skills and other useful stuff - play on some open-source projects - and see if redundancy comes in a few months.

Or if it's a really juicy contract, just quit.

[northernladuk]

You no doubt have the skills to do the job but he 'soft' skills are quite different. You need to develop the mental toughness to look for a new contract every six months (obviously this varies) and to be able to sit on the bench watching the money evaporate then smile sweetly an interview you need to get through to pay next month's mortgage.

This is very true. Some do relish the thought of this. Personally I went contracting so I could find new and varied work and not get stuck for years. Some don't of course but after 14 years will be a shock.

Potentially you will wave goodbye to home on a Monday morning and come back Friday evening.

When they need to get rid of you, you will be first in the queue.

Some gotcha's here. Potentially if you do that you are also potentially going to have problems with IR35. It's not gauranteed but you will have to work harder to be treated like a business and not an employee if you were an employee less than 2 days ago if that makes sense.

Also some large companies have policies about taking employees back on. My last client had a policy of not taking anyone on that had worked there in the last 3 months. Oddly enough that suited them more, they got big redundancy payout (lots of long termers here) 3 months off and then back in. Crazy, but anyway....

[SussexSeagull]

Some gotcha's here. Potentially if you do that you are also potentially going to have problems with IR35. It's not gauranteed but you will have to work harder to be treated like a business and not an employee if you were an employee less than 2 days ago if that makes sense.

Also some large companies have policies about taking employees back on. My last client had a policy of not taking anyone on that had worked there in the last 3 months. Oddly enough that suited them more, they got big redundancy payout (lots of long termers here) 3 months off and then back in. Crazy, but anyway....

I was more referring to the perilous status of contractors, but sound advice none the less.

[psychocandy]

Paul,

Was in a similar situation and was lucky to get voluntary redundancy....

I was put on 'garden leave' initially and they paid me until they'd done all their other compulsory redundancy stuff and the process was all finalised as I think they had to by law. At this point then, they paid me TOIL and redundancy payment.

Only thing is during this garden leave they still reserve the right to call you back in. Probably wont happen but it could be a problem if you're on a contract at this time (and probably not really allowed).

Just check that this is not what their plan is because I'm sure they cant make anyone officially redundant until the end of the whole process.

Worked out ok for me in the end. The buggers did make me work for some of my garden leave, then I sorted myself a free course courtesy of welsh assembly government. In the end, spent about 2 weeks 'officially' jobless at the end of garden leave and then started current contract.

Best thing I ever did....

[kingcook]

The potential contract is verbal at the moment with meeting scheduled for tomorrow to get closer to formalising it (basically an ex-colleague is the one calling the shots & he wants me there so I'm pretty confident of the opportunity, he seems 100% confident).

If you're pining your hopes on this 1 contract alone, it may be best to just sit and wait for redundancy, and let this contract pass by.

If you're sure that more contracts will follow, then you have nothing to worry about. If not, then it will be a mistake to jump into contracting. What i'm trying to say is, it's only worth contracting if you can be reasonably sure you're going to get a good amount of work in the future.

This is just my way of thinking BTW

[MarillionFan]

Contractors here say just as bad things about permies, stop being so sensitive. He's making the point that he sees contractors who are not highly skilled, that's all. Hardly shocking news.

WHS.

Have you discussed redundancy with HR. There should be no reason that you couldn't ask.

Primarily though, find out what they would pay you for 14 years.
Then find out the possibility of being made redundant.
Then work out how much holiday owing you have and how much that's worth.
Then calculate all of the possible scenarios.

You then have the hard cash answer.

And then make a decision / play for whatever you want to do.

Good luck.