Advice Please!

[Denny]

Weboo, don't be suckered. The general rule (there are exceptions, but they are so stunningly rare as to not be worth thinking about) is references upfront = contract does not exist.

This isn't relevant to me at all. I have already been sent a contract subject to refs weeks ago and the refs were taken up afterwards.

There is no way I would give refs upfront without the client coming through with an offer of engagement of some sort. It's also the client that wanted to take up the refs not the pimp. In fact I asked the pimp to do it weeks ago and he refused because he kept telling me that the client insisted on doing it.

[The Master]

This isn't relevant to me at all. I have already been sent a contract subject to refs weeks ago and the refs were taken up afterwards.

There is no way I would give refs upfront without the client coming through with an offer of engagement of some sort. It's also the client that wanted to take up the refs not the pimp. In fact I asked the pimp to do it weeks ago and he refused because he kept telling me that the client insisted on doing it.

I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to Weboo.

[Mailman]

Denny,

Why is setting up a limited company going to cost you £300? It shouldnt cost anywhere near that much and even if you pay £100 thats still far too much!

Mailman

[Denny]

Denny,

Why is setting up a limited company going to cost you £300? It shouldnt cost anywhere near that much and even if you pay £100 thats still far too much!

Mailman

That was for the limited set up and the review. In fact, I've just joined Qdos freelance club and they give 3 free reviews each year for IR35 check. It's only £25 quid + VAT too.

By the way, I managed to get my agent to send me an offer in writing now which he has done (although he has still made no point of saying the refs have been satisfactorily checked and now closed). However, he has shot himself in the foot now because should more refs be taken up behind my back now he's e-mailed me his offer post refs being taken up (which implies strongly that the offer is on the table no longer subject to ref take up) and the role is withdrawn due to unsatisfactory refs - which is unlikely anyway (and the only other referee he has available isn't back until the 2nd) then I could potentially skin his arse for deception which I will certainly do. I don't think that will happen though. I will certainly be getting in touch with this other referee (the one back on the 2nd) and asking them not to cooperate with any more reference checks and to let me know if they are contacted (which I think she will do).

This particularly EB thinks of themselves as a cut above the rest (more search and select and they only hire top level executives normally - which is probably why he's treating me like dirt - because I'm not going in at Director level and getting him a healthy margin based on a fee rate of around a grand a day) and they don't see themselves as a typical IT recruitment organisation at all. In my view, it's no different to the rest of them - you still need to watch your back and fight like an ally cat to get what you want. It actually makes me laugh when recruiters say that contractors don't act like real businesses, yet when they are confronted by real negotiation that takes into account your own terms of reference and ways of doing things - in my case - all significant negotiation outcomes in writing only - they do everything possible to resist complying and think they can do whatever they damned well please. Accountability is just not in this guy's vocabulary. Since when has any business had a monopoly on protecting their own business interests? The truth is this: they prefer to see as pseudo temp employees in every way except to employ us. No wonder we had IR35 thrust up our noses by Gordo.

Thanks everyone for your input.

[Denny]

Denny,

Why is setting up a limited company going to cost you £300? It shouldnt cost anywhere near that much and even if you pay £100 thats still far too much!

Mailman

Sorry, MM. The fee was about an all in service - accs management, setting up business bank account. The sort of service SJD provide + the check by Qdos (which was originally quoted to me as being around £150).

Normally I use a brolly because most of my of my roles of an 'of services' basis, but not this time, because the role is clearly being set up to be outside IR35 (including negs with the client over actual working arrangements) so it seems more appropriate to go limited this time round.

[ratewhore]

It is supposed to be a top flight employment business

No such thing in my humble experience...

[Denny]

You know my thoughts on this stuff. Contact the client direct. Tell them you dont wont both of you to lose out because of dodgy agents. Also why can;t they just client just have a mobile number for the referees? I've had to give a reference for plenty of people and its always just a 5 min chat (ie Will he turn up for work, and can we trust him to deliver) ACT LIKE A BUSINESS.

I had thought about doing that but I think my attempts would have done me more harm than good. The client (who was supposed to carry out these ref checks) is always out of the country and therefore uncontactable and he is also very chummy with the agent.

When I do start on site though, and if I find out that he isn't the recruiter's buddy and was unaware of the hassles I was having with this pimp and that he was misled in anyway over messages he got through from the pimp from me then I will try and persuade him to route the role through another pimp with immediate effect. There is nothing I would like more than to dump this posh pimp out of his margin (if he is as bad as all that!). My guess is that the client was just not around and no decisive enough about who to contact and was probably trying every stunt under the sun to stall the role and try and get it filled internally. In my field that happens quite a bit as I'm not a technical bod.

[Denny]

It is supposed to be a top flight employment business

No such thing in my humble experience...

That's precisely what I said to the pimp. I think it upset him.

[errorista]

I had thought about doing that but I think my attempts would have done me more harm than good. The client (who was supposed to carry out these ref checks) is always out of the country and therefore uncontactable and he is also very chummy with the agent.

When I do start on site though, and if I find out that he isn't the recruiter's buddy and was unaware of the hassles I was having with this pimp and that he was misled in anyway over messages he got through from the pimp from me then I will try and persuade him to route the role through another pimp with immediate effect. There is nothing I would like more than to dump this posh pimp out of his margin (if he is as bad as all that!). My guess is that the client was just not around and no decisive enough about who to contact and was probably trying every stunt under the sun to stall the role and try and get it filled internally. In my field that happens quite a bit as I'm not a technical bod.

too late when you start on site - you will have signed a contract

talk to the client . . . chances are they are NOT buddies with this recruiter and will be open to discussion

its only business

error

[Denny]

too late when you start on site - you will have signed a contract

talk to the client . . . chances are they are NOT buddies with this recruiter and will be open to discussion

its only business

error

Not with this multinational, it won't be. I'll play it by ear when I start the role.

When I went for the interview (whoops! business discussion) about the role I handed the client my company brochure with my contact details on it. He didn't attempt to ring me directly. Most would, if they think they could get an easier and cheaper ride without a pimp being in the way.