Reply to: Advice Please!

[Denny]

I dunno Denny, I reckon Gordo is going to want to see receipts for Sasguru's clown suit to make sure you have paid the correct amount of tax on it. After all, its only fair!

Mailman

Good point, Mailman. If Gordo finds out I'm doing cartwheels round the carpark as a result of getting my money on time, he may conclude that acting like a clown and not just looking like one is not a pointer to differentiation from the rest of the staff but is an intrinsic part of my pseudo-employee status at the company.

[Mailman]

I dunno Denny, I reckon Gordo is going to want to see receipts for Sasguru's clown suit to make sure you have paid the correct amount of tax on it. After all, its only fair!

Mailman

[Denny]

Ermmmmmm...either way...just keep going till you find someone who says you are outside IR35 cause we all know its really down to Gordo and his evil henchment to decide who is and isnt caught by IR35

Mailman

If I never allow the client to brief me face to face (implies client control) only discuss the spec by telepathy, set my own laptop up, pitch a tent in the company carpark, and bring my own sandwiches and pee in the gutter and and always wear a clowns outfit to pop in on a Friday to reception to get my timesheet signed I shouldn't be mistaken for a pseudo employee and be outside IR35, me reckons.

[Mailman]

Ermmmm .... accountant telling you that you are outside IR35??? Last time I checked they weren't lawyers so intelligent as they are, they can only offer guidance not facts.

Ermmmmmm...either way...just keep going till you find someone who says you are outside IR35 cause we all know its really down to Gordo and his evil henchment to decide who is and isnt caught by IR35

Mailman

[Denny]

Even £150 is far too much (this is a one off payment or monthly?). If this is monthly then you are getting fleeced! All of the stuff you mention above you can do yourself with a minimum of fuss.

You dont need to pay SJD £1200 a year for work you could do yourself (after all, we should all be trying to minimise outgoings and maximise profit ).

Re your contract...just get yourself an accountant who will say "Yes Denny, your contract is outside IR35". If you get an account that says you are caught...just change the fecker and keep going till you find an account who tells you what you want to hear

Mailman

Those were the set up costs not the monthly fee which is around £70 per month or thereabouts. That's not bad considering they are taking away all the burden of doing the paperwork myself. When I have got my head around doing the paperwork and what's required I'll just let this service go and do it myself. My brolly charges me £60 per month to process the invoices anyway.

[boredsenseless]

Even £150 is far too much (this is a one off payment or monthly?). If this is monthly then you are getting fleeced! All of the stuff you mention above you can do yourself with a minimum of fuss.

You dont need to pay SJD £1200 a year for work you could do yourself (after all, we should all be trying to minimise outgoings and maximise profit ).

Re your contract...just get yourself an accountant who will say "Yes Denny, your contract is outside IR35". If you get an account that says you are caught...just change the fecker and keep going till you find an account who tells you what you want to hear

Mailman

Ermmmm .... accountant telling you that you are outside IR35??? Last time I checked they weren't lawyers so intelligent as they are, they can only offer guidance not facts.

[Mailman]

Sorry, MM. The fee was about an all in service - accs management, setting up business bank account. The sort of service SJD provide + the check by Qdos (which was originally quoted to me as being around £150).

Even £150 is far too much (this is a one off payment or monthly?). If this is monthly then you are getting fleeced! All of the stuff you mention above you can do yourself with a minimum of fuss.

You dont need to pay SJD £1200 a year for work you could do yourself (after all, we should all be trying to minimise outgoings and maximise profit ).

Re your contract...just get yourself an accountant who will say "Yes Denny, your contract is outside IR35". If you get an account that says you are caught...just change the fecker and keep going till you find an account who tells you what you want to hear

Mailman

[Denny]

too late when you start on site - you will have signed a contract

talk to the client . . . chances are they are NOT buddies with this recruiter and will be open to discussion

its only business

error

Not with this multinational, it won't be. I'll play it by ear when I start the role.

When I went for the interview (whoops! business discussion) about the role I handed the client my company brochure with my contact details on it. He didn't attempt to ring me directly. Most would, if they think they could get an easier and cheaper ride without a pimp being in the way.

[errorista]

I had thought about doing that but I think my attempts would have done me more harm than good. The client (who was supposed to carry out these ref checks) is always out of the country and therefore uncontactable and he is also very chummy with the agent.

When I do start on site though, and if I find out that he isn't the recruiter's buddy and was unaware of the hassles I was having with this pimp and that he was misled in anyway over messages he got through from the pimp from me then I will try and persuade him to route the role through another pimp with immediate effect. There is nothing I would like more than to dump this posh pimp out of his margin (if he is as bad as all that!). My guess is that the client was just not around and no decisive enough about who to contact and was probably trying every stunt under the sun to stall the role and try and get it filled internally. In my field that happens quite a bit as I'm not a technical bod.

too late when you start on site - you will have signed a contract

talk to the client . . . chances are they are NOT buddies with this recruiter and will be open to discussion

its only business

error

[Denny]

It is supposed to be a top flight employment business

No such thing in my humble experience...

That's precisely what I said to the pimp. I think it upset him.

[Denny]

You know my thoughts on this stuff. Contact the client direct. Tell them you dont wont both of you to lose out because of dodgy agents. Also why can;t they just client just have a mobile number for the referees? I've had to give a reference for plenty of people and its always just a 5 min chat (ie Will he turn up for work, and can we trust him to deliver) ACT LIKE A BUSINESS.

I had thought about doing that but I think my attempts would have done me more harm than good. The client (who was supposed to carry out these ref checks) is always out of the country and therefore uncontactable and he is also very chummy with the agent.

When I do start on site though, and if I find out that he isn't the recruiter's buddy and was unaware of the hassles I was having with this pimp and that he was misled in anyway over messages he got through from the pimp from me then I will try and persuade him to route the role through another pimp with immediate effect. There is nothing I would like more than to dump this posh pimp out of his margin (if he is as bad as all that!). My guess is that the client was just not around and no decisive enough about who to contact and was probably trying every stunt under the sun to stall the role and try and get it filled internally. In my field that happens quite a bit as I'm not a technical bod.

[ratewhore]

It is supposed to be a top flight employment business

No such thing in my humble experience...

[Denny]

Denny,

Why is setting up a limited company going to cost you £300? It shouldnt cost anywhere near that much and even if you pay £100 thats still far too much!

Mailman

Sorry, MM. The fee was about an all in service - accs management, setting up business bank account. The sort of service SJD provide + the check by Qdos (which was originally quoted to me as being around £150).

Normally I use a brolly because most of my of my roles of an 'of services' basis, but not this time, because the role is clearly being set up to be outside IR35 (including negs with the client over actual working arrangements) so it seems more appropriate to go limited this time round.

[Denny]

Denny,

Why is setting up a limited company going to cost you £300? It shouldnt cost anywhere near that much and even if you pay £100 thats still far too much!

Mailman

That was for the limited set up and the review. In fact, I've just joined Qdos freelance club and they give 3 free reviews each year for IR35 check. It's only £25 quid + VAT too.

By the way, I managed to get my agent to send me an offer in writing now which he has done (although he has still made no point of saying the refs have been satisfactorily checked and now closed). However, he has shot himself in the foot now because should more refs be taken up behind my back now he's e-mailed me his offer post refs being taken up (which implies strongly that the offer is on the table no longer subject to ref take up) and the role is withdrawn due to unsatisfactory refs - which is unlikely anyway (and the only other referee he has available isn't back until the 2nd) then I could potentially skin his arse for deception which I will certainly do. I don't think that will happen though. I will certainly be getting in touch with this other referee (the one back on the 2nd) and asking them not to cooperate with any more reference checks and to let me know if they are contacted (which I think she will do).

This particularly EB thinks of themselves as a cut above the rest (more search and select and they only hire top level executives normally - which is probably why he's treating me like dirt - because I'm not going in at Director level and getting him a healthy margin based on a fee rate of around a grand a day) and they don't see themselves as a typical IT recruitment organisation at all. In my view, it's no different to the rest of them - you still need to watch your back and fight like an ally cat to get what you want. It actually makes me laugh when recruiters say that contractors don't act like real businesses, yet when they are confronted by real negotiation that takes into account your own terms of reference and ways of doing things - in my case - all significant negotiation outcomes in writing only - they do everything possible to resist complying and think they can do whatever they damned well please. Accountability is just not in this guy's vocabulary. Since when has any business had a monopoly on protecting their own business interests? The truth is this: they prefer to see as pseudo temp employees in every way except to employ us. No wonder we had IR35 thrust up our noses by Gordo.

Thanks everyone for your input.

[Mailman]

Denny,

Why is setting up a limited company going to cost you £300? It shouldnt cost anywhere near that much and even if you pay £100 thats still far too much!

Mailman