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Advice Please!

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    Advice Please!

    Sensible answers only.

    I'm in a bit of a pickle and wonder if anyone can advise.

    A few weeks ago (in March) I went for an interview for a role and the recruiter came back to me a few hours later and said that the client wanted to take up references himself in a couple of days. I went ahead and set up two referees for the client to contact directly.

    Neither of these references were taken up. Apparently the client had gone abroad and couldn't fit them in.

    About a week later I heard back from the recruiter who said that there had a new development and that the client company had not followed due process and was obliged to interview two internal staff for the same role. The recruiter told me that the client did not expect either candidate to be suitable. The following week the recruiter got back to me and said that both had been interviewed and weren't any good, as predicted. He then scheduled a time for a second interview over the phone from a senior bod at the client site who made it clear that she expected me to start 'yesterday.' After that, the recruiter phoned me and told me to set up the references again for the original client to contract as the second interviewer was more than happy with how the interview went.

    I did this - scheduled a time and date - again just before Easter, the recruiter told me that neither were taken up due to the client going abroad unexpectedly. I was asked to reschedule them for last Friday. However, one referee had already dropped out (after being let down twice perhaps?) another went away on holiday for Easter not to be back until the 2nd and the third made himself available for an interview as did a fourth. In the meantime the recruiter sent me the contract terms with 'subject to references being taken up' on it.

    I then set up two new referees to be contacted last Friday afternoon between 2-4pm to replace the two that had dropped out. In the morning the recruiter told me that the client had come back from the States and definitely would be taking them up between these times.

    At the end of the day I learnt that only one had been taken up but not the other. The recruiter told me that the client wanted to speak to the referee who wouldn't be back until the 2nd May - the day I was supposed to start. He hadn't wanted the second one I'd scheduled that afternoon even though this was not made clear from his morning e-mail to the recruiter after I had pre-warned both that the client had actually agreed to speak to both of them. If that was the case, why hadn't he said so earlier? The recruiter then even mentioned that the client might try and contact her on holiday in Thailand. I refused point blank to let that happen.

    I then had to ring the other one and apologise for waiting by the phone (the second time) and asked if it could be rescheduled for sometime this week. I went back to the recruiter and told him that he must take up this reference himself this time because I wanted closure on this matter. I made it clear all along that because the client was always being called away unexpectedly the recruiter should take up these references himself but he refused because he said the client wanted to. All this has done is wasted a lot of time and led to two delays in the start date (originally just after Easter and now the 2nd May). If the client didn't want to take up the second reference offered last Friday, why didn't he say so in his early morning e-mail?

    Anyway, on Monday the recruiter was left to handle the last referee (but this time without a scheduled time as I refused to risk having him let down a third time). Yesterday, the reference was taken up. Therefore, the two referees the client wanted done for a formal offer to be made have been completed.

    However, the recruiter has now faltered in giving me a formal offer for the role and just e-mailed me with vague assurance that he thought it was safe to go ahead now. On the strength of that he expects me to get the papers looked over by Qdos and my limited company set up (normally I use a brolly). I have refused to do this because the recruiter has not sent me a definitive statement that specifically states that the role is now being offered to me no longer subject to references. If I go ahead and get the papers checked and a ltd set up then it will cost me over £300.

    I have had row after row with the recruiter about his handling of this whole affair. It is supposed to be a top flight employment business only dealing with top level interim management. Yet, in my experience, he's one of the most unprofessional recruiters I've ever had to deal with. On three occasions when I've tried to pin him down to specifics he's simply put the phone down on me leaving me to stew overnight.

    In the meantime I have some ad hoc work for another client that is pending and which I am enjoying, having done some workshops with him a couple of weeks ago. Not so lucrative but very satisfying. I've had great feedback from this new client already.

    Do you think I should hang on longer and see if this job happens (its 4 month contract for good money) or should I just knock this role on the head. I can't help feeling that if the client can be so indecisive about everything so far he probably won't be any different once I start. I'm also concerned that if the recruiter is that indecisive and unprofessional about his handling of this matter so far he may not be that reliable about paying me either. The recruiter simply won't comply with any of my requests for written confirmation about anything and just sends through woolly statements that avoid the points I've asked him to answer and nothing he writes ever amounts to closure. He has fought me tooth and nail about everything I've asked for and simply won't give a straight answer to a straight question about anything.

    This whole matter is making me very angry and physically exhausted. I can do without it.

    So, what I'm asking you for is a second opinion. Should I hang on for this assignment (that may or may not be in the bag) or should I just drop it and take whatever work I will otherwise have to turn down over the coming weeks (if it happens at all) from my private client who I have enjoyed so far with more in the bag potentially when I see him later this week? This could be a very important client to work with now and in the future, and I'm actually quite reluctant to cut off any work flow coming from him at this point.

    Sorry to be such a wuss, but my head is so screwed up with all of this now, I can't think straight anymore which is not like me at all. This whole matter (like this post) had dragged on for weeks now and my life has been kept on hold in what I consider to be an unreasonable way.

    #2
    See The Masters reply on the General forum.

    These people really don't give a tulip about you. You're just another 'resource'.
    Ignore them for now, and if they call you back tell them that you've already given them all the information they require, and let them get on with it !
    I think the following comment sums it all up really...

    "I can't help feeling that if the client can be so indecisive about everything so far he probably won't be any different once I start. I'm also concerned that if the recruiter is that indecisive and unprofessional about his handling of this matter so far he may not be that reliable about paying me either."

    Relax and get on with your life. Situations like this are not worth stressing over.

    Comment


      #3
      I agree with Crapaud on this one.
      It all sounds very dodgy and not worth the hassle.
      Name and shame? Go on, you know you want to.
      We must strike at the lies that have spread like disease through our minds

      Comment


        #4
        Please name and shame. Sounds like they are getting as much info out of you as possible.

        Two recent experiences from pimps who called me. Asked for references (this is Parity) for a role that I was suited, would not tell me the client either. Anyway, the role was no longer available - but the cheeky lady(I have her name also) still called my old bosses to get as much info as poss about projects etc.....I called her for an explanation and asked to talk to her boss too.

        The next experience was only last week. Got another call from a pimp([]) and told me about a role I am suited to...stated a massive rate(higher than city) and said they would put my CV over....needed some references, then came back to tell me due to annual leave there is a delay...no there could be some honesty in this...but I doubt it.

        Comment


          #5
          Weboo, don't be suckered. The general rule (there are exceptions, but they are so stunningly rare as to not be worth thinking about) is references upfront = contract does not exist.

          Comment


            #6
            True and have taken note. I now only go for contracts from agents I know and have worked with before or apply for myself & certainly will not hand over a reference until I know the client and more detail for myself.

            Comment


              #7
              I think you're still in danger of being suckered, Weboo. Some people, myself included, go a lot further than that and will only give references at or after interview. This has never caused the genuine agent (or client) a problem in 15 years of contracting.

              After all, I don't want a load of time wasters pissing off my hard earned referees calling them up every 10 minutes for a reference. The only time they really need to be contacted is when the contract offer is on the table "subject to references".

              Comment


                #8
                This isn't a straightforward case of pimps getting leads under the guise of a real job though. I would have seen them coming ages ago, if that had been the case. I've had the interviews (two now by two different bods) and the refs have now been taken and now the papers are being finalised. The pimp appears to be setting up the contract with the client. He just won't put the offer in writing in a way I find acceptable to go ahead and get Qdos to check it over. He's trying to force me to do that first before making the offer - something he has tried to do all along because he doesn't want to change anything on it. I have managed to secure a B2B IR35 exempt contract which the recruiter has discussed (or so he says) with the client and yesterday asked me to draw up a works schedule.

                Unless you're suggesting that this whole thing is a pure invention by the pimp who has lied about everything he has said to me about what the client has said and is simply stringing me along for his own amusement knowing full well that the client hasn't come through with an offer nor ever intended to. I doubt that this is the case. He must be a sadist if that's what he has done. It's wasted both my time and his with a lot of hassle for both of us, plus the pimp would be severely jeapordising his own position with the client if I complained about him to the organisation. I have a full paper trail of all the ref schedules I've set up so if he's told the client I never set them up then he's making a noose for his own neck. Also why did he send me terms subject to refs?

                What does worry me more is this: this client organisation was approached by another private client (n my field) of mine a few months back (which my pimp knows nothing about) and he was in deep negotiations with the client to put someone (me) on site there for a role similar to this one. Again, there were numous delays and messages from my PC that the client was wabbling. In the end the role didn't come off. Again, the same organisation.

                I have a feeling that this is the way this organisation works - they are simply too rule bound and too indecisive about what they do want. I also suspect that they will be looking round for someone to replace me the minute I start.

                The worst thing of all is that the pimp is an old schoolbuddy of the client I will be working with (who was supposed to take up the refs) and this makes me jittery about him acting impartially and fairly should I need to go to him about any problems, if there are any, once I start.
                Last edited by Denny; 26 April 2006, 07:55.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Also why did he send me terms subject to refs?
                  "I'm sorry there's been a problem with your references, so the terms of the contract have changed."

                  SUBTRACT
                  50 FROM OLD-RATE GIVING NEW-RATE
                  END-SUBTRACT

                  Just a thought....
                  We must strike at the lies that have spread like disease through our minds

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Denny

                    You know my thoughts on this stuff. Contact the client direct. Tell them you dont wont both of you to lose out because of dodgy agents. Also why can;t they just client just have a mobile number for the referees? I've had to give a reference for plenty of people and its always just a 5 min chat (ie Will he turn up for work, and can we trust him to deliver) ACT LIKE A BUSINESS.

                    Comment

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