Minimum daily rate in Zurich you would accept

[xara]

This was mentioned in a previous thread which I can no longer find, although I seem to remember it predates the present monstrous CHF<>EUR exchange rate..

What is the minimum CHF daily rate that one should look for in Zurich, in order to save a good 3 or 4k€ per month?...it's a fairly short gig so I will have to go through the rigmarole of finding temporary accommodation etc.

Thanks..

[jeremytaxman]

After taxes and other costs such as payroll company and mandatory health insurance, expect a retention of about 65-70%. Cheapest temporary accomodation will be about 2k chf per month. Expect to pay double for everything .... including the most basic things .... seriously !

Also you may have to take holidays ... 25 days per calendar year in addition to public holidays. Flights can be expensive 250 to 300 chf, and sometimes fully booked. Large crappy lager beer cost 9chf.

So the headline rate might be high, but you simply can't relate it to anything in the UK. Rates here are dropping big time too and banks forcing 10% cuts on contractors, and asking them to take extra holidays. Thanks to the SNB, the CHF is now pegged at 1.2chf/eur and there is talk of further intervention at 1.25chf/eur.

What you can ask depends on your skillset and how much budget the client has left (new budgets in Jan) and your savings depend on whether you want to 'exist' or 'live'.

You gotta fully experience how expensive it is to believe it - mental !

[jeremytaxman]

Nearly forgot ... HMRC will still consider you UK tax resident so you'll have to give them another 20% of your salary. The double tax treaty only means HMRC deduct the tax you paid to the Swiss - and that doesn't include the medical, pension

...... and HMRC won't let you deduct any expenses in the same way that you can't deduct your normal commuting costs in the UK.

.... so unless you can satisfy the non resident criteria, you will be shafted .... and short term gig implies less than 186 days so immediae shaft there :-)

[xara]

Thanks jeremytaxman..

So with all that taken into consideration, and assuming I definitely want to do more than exist/live (i.e. I want to save, a good 3 or 4k euros a month)...what should I shoot for? I realise that you can't take all my costs into consideration or the vagaries of accommodation etc. but I'm trying to get some sort of figure or ballpark in mind. 800? 1000? 1200CHF?

[chef]

well looking at what JT has saiddouble some rough finger in the air maths I'd say:

2k CHF rent
4x300CHF flights (assuming you come home each weekend)
from experience your other outgoing costs are roughly the same as rent per month so that's 2k assuming any difference in this is what you save
that's 5.2k CHF per month

65% retention - 20% uk tax so that's 45% retention

to get 5.2k from 45% of your wage you'd need to earn circa 11,500 CHF per month, round that up to make sure you atleast save 500CHF per month if there was nothing left in the 2k other costs mentioned above so that's 12,000CHF

asume you work a 20 day month given that you're unlikely to able to bill for travel time and will arrive mid morning mon, leave early afternoon friday and so lose a few days work each month. Also assume you work an 8 hr day (any surplus is a bonus that can add to savings/quality of life)

so as an absolute minimum you need to earn
12000/20 = 600CHF a day, currently around 425GBP
or 75 CHF an hr currently around 53GBP an hr


and that's before your normal home outgoing costs (mortgage/rent, wife/gf, food, bills etc.)

I wouldnt personally work for those rates even in Germany but i know nothing of your skillset and lifestyle from what you've given so far

suck it and see maths

[JustMe]

Thanks jeremytaxman..

So with all that taken into consideration, and assuming I definitely want to do more than exist/live (i.e. I want to save, a good 3 or 4k euros a month)...what should I shoot for? I realise that you can't take all my costs into consideration or the vagaries of accommodation etc. but I'm trying to get some sort of figure or ballpark in mind. 800? 1000? 1200CHF?

I am in Swiss, on 1000 a day. Some companies work 42,5h a week, other 40h a week.
For less I wouldn't come. It is very difficult to find housing for such a short contract. So you will probably live in a hotel.

rgds,
Justme

[BlasterBates]

Provided you´re contract is longer than 6 months you won´t be taxed again in the UK. Check the DTA. You do need advice, tax authorities, not just the UK, often make mistakes and charge too much tax. The general principle of the the DTA is that you only pay once, then there are exceptions. For countries with which the UK doesn´t have a double taxation treaty they demand the difference. There is a rather strange exception with Swiss income in that you have to be resident there for over 6 months before they will allow you to earn without extra deductions.

I pay approx CHF 1100 for my flat in Zürich. You can buy big things in Germany, furniture and so on, about an hours drive from Zürich.

I agree with Chef go for 600 or more, 600 will give you about 8.5 CHF grand take home. If it´s a short contract although you will be taxed again, I would expect a higher take home for a short stay, as you wouldn´t be subject to annual tax rates.

I don´t know what the take home would be for a short stay, but I would expect it to be higher than 70%.

[jeremytaxman]

OMG if he comes her for 600chf per day he will be absolutely miserable. Accept nothing less than 800 minimum and 1000 is reasonable to ask for a short contract in this climate. I know it sounds like alot but it doesn't go far.

I know plenty of guys who've been suckered into starting here on a low rate ...... only to leave immediately after finding a gig back in the UK.

But my top tip is make sure you speak the language of the project - banks are often English and no problem, but its very isolating if colleagues speak Swiss German in an ordinary company and only talk English to you when they have to. Amazingly even Germans have problems.

If you are single and without UK ties then definately give it a shot, otherwise think about what you lose rather then the little you gain .... and good luck finding somewhere to live ...

[The Spartan]

This thread makes very interesting reading, do you know if you can reclaim your expenses like you're able to in the UK?

[BlasterBates]

With regards to whether you pay tax in the UK .....not if your contract extends beyond 6 months, or you get an extension beyond 6 months, regardless of whether you're UK tax resident.

There is an exception to the DTA which means normally your income is taxed only once.

But yes you will be paying UK tax on top of your Swiss tax for a short term contract. YOu should take some advice from a reputable accountant. You could consider deregistering so that you would be UK non-resident from day one, and provided you can work for in Switzerland for a year then there would be no question about double tax.

If you're living in Switzerland just during the week you can find a cheap hotel in Zürich for example for CHF 80 a night, small appartment (one room, with bathroom, kitchen) you can pick up for 1000-1200 CHF on the outskirts eg. near the airport.

I would consider anything above CHF 600 a day (bare minimum), 800 would be fine, 1000 would be great but pushing it I reckon, and do your sums as to whether that's acceptable, i.e. check prices of flights and so on.

Account for 65-70% take home, and obviously go for contracts which will extend beyond 6 months.


As an example a couple of flats going not far from the airport and good connections to Zürich for just over 1200 CHF.

http://www.homegate.ch/mieten/wohnun...h&ah=1300&tr=2

For 1700 you can get a 4 bedroomed flat in that area.

If you were to move to Zürich you'd want something like that. Also look for flats near where you're working.