Was I being unreasonable querying the contract?

[perplexed]

Hmm - one other thought.

OP expressed his concern at elements of the contract with the agency. Asked to meet cleint face to face.

Agency may well have possibly thought OP was looking to cut them out of the loop perhaps?

[lje]

I don't think this was about you querying the contract at all - this is quite normal and I don't think it would have raised eyebrows. It seems to me that this was about asking to meet the client team. If they are happy with a phone interview and want you on site quickly they could see that kind of request as strange. Perhaps they are really busy and are looking for appropriate people to bring in to bolster the team. They could see the request as a hassle - and what would they get out of it? They already know what they want to about you.

Whilst I can understand why you would want to do it, it isn't something I would request in the same circumstances.

[redgiant]

I don't think this was about you querying the contract at all - this is quite normal and I don't think it would have raised eyebrows. It seems to me that this was about asking to meet the client team. If they are happy with a phone interview and want you on site quickly they could see that kind of request as strange. Perhaps they are really busy and are looking for appropriate people to bring in to bolster the team. They could see the request as a hassle - and what would they get out of it? They already know what they want to about you.

Whilst I can understand why you would want to do it, it isn't something I would request in the same circumstances.

I have to agree as I got my current role without a face to face interview and although strange I felt that I got the right answers to my questions on the phone interview so wasn't put off. Insisting on a face to face would probably have put them off as they wanted to get somone in urgently.

As it turned out afterwards the business manager who was signing off the resource request knew me from a previous role and vouched for me so they decided to bring me in

[2BIT]

I have recently been offered a contract with IBM at a client site.
The advertised contract was for 6 months at a fixed daily rate. I had a 20 minute telephone interview and I was then made an offer. I did not have a face to face interview therefore I was unable to visit the client site or meet the people I would be working with/for. I had not worked for the client before. The contract meant I would be staying away from home 4 nights a week.
Once the offer was made it was for 12 months not 6, and 8 hour professional working day (therefore very little room for varying start and end times), IBM could give me notice but I could not terminate the contract. I at first accepted the contract verbally but then become uneasy after seeing the contract terms and hours.
I went back to the agent and voiced my concerns who said that she would try to arrange a face to face chat with the people who conducted the telephone interview.
Result - IBM withdrew their offer.
Was I being unreasonable in wanting a face to face interview and being unwilling to sign for 12 months straight off when the contract was advertised as 6 months? I'd welcome other views on this.

no but the notice period thing is common on project based work, they cant have your flouncing for a higher rate mid project..

12 months, yes naughty but no bad thing, better than wanting 12 and getting 6

face to face interview as a contractor? IBM is quite hard to get into through normal routes as a -you got lucky but sounds like you've jepordised it as they are very process driven

other thing I'd say is 8 hour day is standard, you'd expect them to use their discretion over start and finish times, ie dont expect such minutae to be in the contract

so no not unreasonable but I feel you've lost this for no real good reason, unless the 12 months was completely unacceptable (and can appreciate if it is as I've turned down longer contracts involving lots of travel)

[2BIT]

I disagree. If a client has offered you the role then you're the best person left in the running and I've yet to meet a client who won't wait a day or three until the contracts are negotiated and agreed. Why run the risk of getting stuck on the poor end of a contract that could have serious negative repercussions? For example, I was ready to walk away from my current role when offered because I agreed weekly invoiced, 7 day payment verbal terms yet the contract said monthly invoice, 30 days payment and they were essentially saying "trust us", it was only when I threatened to walk that they amended the contract to meet the agreed terms.

That said, I have seen examples of agencies who tell clients that a candidate has dropped out when all they've done is query a contract. So... as I mentioned above, tulip happens

companies like IBM use so many contractors they have quite protracted processes to manage them, therefore once the ball is rolling it's quite hard to negotiate terms as it involves a lot of work to reverse and restart the process...therefore all negotiations need to be done up front before anything is verbally agreed.... this is true of many large companies and they will have standardised employment contracts which wont deal with specific details like working hours etc...

[2BIT]

Not that I say any of this is logical or reasonable of the client, but unfortunately it is buyers market now.

It is logical and reasonable if it is project based work, you simply cant have key team members flouncing mid project

[craig1]

no but the notice period thing is common on project based work, they cant have your flouncing for a higher rate mid project..

12 months, yes naughty but no bad thing, better than wanting 12 and getting 6

face to face interview as a contractor? IBM is quite hard to get into through normal routes as a -you got lucky but sounds like you've jepordised it as they are very process driven

other thing I'd say is 8 hour day is standard, you'd expect them to use their discretion over start and finish times, ie dont expect such minutae to be in the contract

so no not unreasonable but I feel you've lost this for no real good reason, unless the 12 months was completely unacceptable (and can appreciate if it is as I've turned down longer contracts involving lots of travel)

I usually push for reciprocal notice, i.e. if they want no notice from me then they need to commit to the whole thing and not have any dross clauses that you see in most contracts where they can get shot the same day if they don't like you any more. Either that or ensure the rate is a premium rate to compensate for an unequal contract.

On IBM, my personal and very subjective opinion but I wouldn't see it as "luck" securing a contract with them, more of a punishment really... There's a difference between "process driven" and "anally retentive jobsworths".

[craig1]

companies like IBM use so many contractors they have quite protracted processes to manage them, therefore once the ball is rolling it's quite hard to negotiate terms as it involves a lot of work to reverse and restart the process...therefore all negotiations need to be done up front before anything is verbally agreed.... this is true of many large companies and they will have standardised employment contracts which wont deal with specific details like working hours etc...

Unless you're going direct, you're going through an agency and your contract is with them. 99/100 iffy contracts are down to the agency trying it on rather than the client imposing a term.

[quackhandle]

I was contracted to IBM for nearly two years and both 1st and 2nd interviews were on the phone , seems to be the company standard (for contractors) but am willing to be corrected. Seems odd why they've pulled the offer but it could be the agent or IBM saying "we've got a right fussy arse here, just get someone else in".

Saying that I would have queried the contract as well.

Edit :Just remembered when applying they specifed three locations to work from (IBM UK sites) which was a big help, but then realised how horrible the Washway road site was, horrid souless building.

qh

[contractoralan]

It is logical and reasonable if it is project based work, you simply cant have key team members flouncing mid project

We don't know for sure if it is project based work, do we?

They could have atleast discussed with the OP and made their decision, that is reasonable. A contract is a two way thing. But, normally the stronger party (in this case, the client, in buyers market) tries to impose its own agenda on the weaker party.