Was I being unreasonable querying the contract?

**HeadOfTesting** · 12 August 2011, 07:03

No, but:

- Remember there could be a whole host of reasons why the offer was withdrawn regardless of whether you and/or the agent has linked your queries to the offer being pulled.

- The client might argue that the agent should shield them from having to address what they might see as low level clerical concerns (I'm not trying to say your concerns aren't relevant or significant but the client might take that view). I know of many clients who will just pull the plug at the slightest sign of a query like this.

- In my experience the reality is that only a tiny percentage of managers want to retain contractors who don't want to be there for all sorts of reasons (e.g. potential security risk, dragging down team morale etc). The reality is if you want to bail from a contract where you have no notice provision in the contract a 1-to-1 chat with the boss will normally result in them working with you to determine how the earliest possible exit can be achieved. I remember my first contract had no notice clause - I asked to be fired and the boss was completely ok about it. I'm not saying that's a good thing to do - I'm just saying that in my experience it's the operational reality in the vast majority of cases and so the pragmatic view for such cases in future might be "get the gig, see how it goes, you may love it, if you hate it you can have a conversation with the boss and in all probability you'll be released".

Just my 2p's worth.

**perplexed** · 12 August 2011, 07:48

I don't think the OP was being unreasonable, you've every right to query.

However, he stated that he verbally accepted the offer.

I suspect that would be more the concern from the client perspective. They may well have seen it as being the case they'd made the offer, OP maybe then wanting terms changed after verbally accepting.

**craig1** · 12 August 2011, 07:51

Two points:

- it's never unreasonable to query a contract, especially one with such negative consequences as a no-notice 12 month contract. Only those who are terminally naive or complete contracting newbies sign dodgy contracts without query.
- unfortunately tulip happens. Never bank on a contract getting started successfully until you're in and have the first invoice paid into your account.

**BlasterBates** · 12 August 2011, 08:03

If there was another candidate who didn't question the contract and who was as good, then they would take him. If you do quibble the contract then there is always a risk they'll go for the non-quibbler. Nothing wrong with quibbling, but only something you should do if you don't really need the contract.

**craig1** · 12 August 2011, 08:34

Originally posted by BlasterBates View Post

If there was another candidate who didn't question the contract and who was as good, then they would take him. If you do quibble the contract then there is always a risk they'll go for the non-quibbler. Nothing wrong with quibbling, but only something you should do if you don't really need the contract.

I disagree. If a client has offered you the role then you're the best person left in the running and I've yet to meet a client who won't wait a day or three until the contracts are negotiated and agreed. Why run the risk of getting stuck on the poor end of a contract that could have serious negative repercussions? For example, I was ready to walk away from my current role when offered because I agreed weekly invoiced, 7 day payment verbal terms yet the contract said monthly invoice, 30 days payment and they were essentially saying "trust us", it was only when I threatened to walk that they amended the contract to meet the agreed terms.

That said, I have seen examples of agencies who tell clients that a candidate has dropped out when all they've done is query a contract. So... as I mentioned above, tulip happens

**jmo21** · 12 August 2011, 08:45

Originally posted by craig1 View Post

I disagree. If a client has offered you the role then you're the best person left in the running and I've yet to meet a client who won't wait a day or three until the contracts are negotiated and agreed. Why run the risk of getting stuck on the poor end of a contract that could have serious negative repercussions? For example, I was ready to walk away from my current role when offered because I agreed weekly invoiced, 7 day payment verbal terms yet the contract said monthly invoice, 30 days payment and they were essentially saying "trust us", it was only when I threatened to walk that they amended the contract to meet the agreed terms.

That said, I have seen examples of agencies who tell clients that a candidate has dropped out when all they've done is query a contract. So... as I mentioned above, tulip happens

Not necessarily, they might have 2 or 3 equally good candidates and they've picked one.

The agency might have been sneaky about the contract length and they've just moved on to bloke 2 (who by the way, hasn't heard anything at all about the role and has been emailing the agent looking for a response).

**contractoralan** · 12 August 2011, 08:52

Originally posted by Maximus01 View Post

I have recently been offered a contract with IBM at a client site.
The advertised contract was for 6 months at a fixed daily rate. I had a 20 minute telephone interview and I was then made an offer. I did not have a face to face interview therefore I was unable to visit the client site or meet the people I would be working with/for. I had not worked for the client before. The contract meant I would be staying away from home 4 nights a week.
Once the offer was made it was for 12 months not 6, and 8 hour professional working day (therefore very little room for varying start and end times), IBM could give me notice but I could not terminate the contract. I at first accepted the contract verbally but then become uneasy after seeing the contract terms and hours.
I went back to the agent and voiced my concerns who said that she would try to arrange a face to face chat with the people who conducted the telephone interview.
Result - IBM withdrew their offer.
Was I being unreasonable in wanting a face to face interview and being unwilling to sign for 12 months straight off when the contract was advertised as 6 months? I'd welcome other views on this.

When you verbally accept next time, always quote 'Subject to contract terms(which you have not seen)'.

I think you were very reasonable in querying the stuff.
Not sure why you were asked to meet the client direct. Normally agencies handle these queries/concerns.

You queried the 12 months against 6 months. Thats what could have turned against you. On top of it, as you had asked for notice period, the client might have started doubting your commitment to the contract. Not that I say any of this is logical or reasonable of the client, but unfortunately it is buyers market now.

Dont let this put you off from negotiating or querying future contracts. Learn from this experience.

Good luck.

**craig1** · 12 August 2011, 08:53

Originally posted by jmo21 View Post

Not necessarily, they might have 2 or 3 equally good candidates and they've picked one.

The agency might have been sneaky about the contract length and they've just moved on to bloke 2 (who by the way, hasn't heard anything at all about the role and has been emailing the agent looking for a response).

It's a rare day that a client tosses a coin to pick between contractors. If you're offered then you're usually guaranteed to be the best person left in the running (note how I didn't say best person for the role). The only scenarios I can think of where this isn't the case is where the agency is playing silly games around margins, e.g. they've found a mug who will work for £100 lower than anyone else but has been put forward to the client at full rate.

**Maximus01** · 12 August 2011, 09:14

Thanks guys. Some interesting views there.
Just to clarify the contract was advertised as a 6 month contract and I accepted verbally on that basis. I could have accepted no notice clause for that duration as I have done in the past. It was only when I received the actual contract that I discovered it was for 12 months. It was this and the fact that I hadn't met the client that had caused my concern.

Was I being unreasonable querying the contract?