Moving to London for the first time

**SueEllen** · 2 July 2011, 17:37

Originally posted by VietnamZombie View Post

I'm completely new to this way of working and to London.

I've three questions. Any help here would be *really* appreciated.

- My biggest problem is my spoken English. According to my English tutor, it'd take up to a month living in an English country to improve my terrible accent to something 'comfortable' for native speakers.

One thing that will shock/horrify you when you come to London is the fact that we all speak differently. This is due to the wide range of places English speakers come from.

I have had Indians who speak English telling me they cannot understand native Brits, Americans, Canadians etc. There as we all understand each other even though there are a few slang words we don't get.

Plus I've have foreign friends who spoke very good English before they came to the UK, but it took them 2-4 months before they were interacting in conversations fluently.

Originally posted by VietnamZombie View Post

- My biggest asset is a really nice curriculum backed with strong quality references.

UK based companies tend to be very UK centric so you may find that people are likely not to be interested in your references.

Originally posted by VietnamZombie View Post

My approach will be to go for a junior position, to compensate the client for the lack of a real, good English. Before we had been working in my company with two French guys who barely spoke my local language. Now

You will easily be able to find permanent positions which may or may not be at your skill level as your European language could actually be an asset.

Originally posted by VietnamZombie View Post

The questions are:

- Based on your experience, do you think it's a realistic approach?
- Do you know people in this situation?
- Is the contractor world in London as dynamic as it seems (when you do some research in the web it seems a vibrant world with tons of different opportunities) or reality is completely different (low ratio of clients-to-contractors)?

Until you can interact with people fluently on the phone you will probably have loads of difficulties.

I've seen anyone from tube staff to waiters just start shouting at people just because of their poor spoken English, so I doubt agencies will want to deal with you which is how most contracts are found.

**doodab** · 2 July 2011, 18:31

What European language(s) do you speak? You may be better off somewhere than London.

**VietnamZombie** · 2 July 2011, 21:10

@SueEllen Thank you for your reply.

You will easily be able to find permanent positions which may or may not be at your skill level as your European language could actually be an asset.

The truth is that improving my English is also an important goal working there. I'm from Spain (Madrid) and if I find myself speaking Spanish, well, that'd be a problem.

so I doubt agencies will want to deal with you which is how most contracts are found.

That's a problem. A real problem. Based on my own experience working with non-natives in my area (software development) it wasn't such a big deal as it seemed at first (if the guys were truly good in their fields of expertise). But if that's how agencies react, well...

In my field you are working 98% of the time with your computer. If you can attend and fully understand meetings, be able to talk -at least at a minimum level-, and to understand and reply the endless emails, productivity doesn't necessarily suffer -but yes, it won't be so comfortable for native-speakers-.

The thing is that agencies are usually the gatekeepers...

@doodab Spanish is my native language

**Clever Hans** · 3 July 2011, 12:56

You could try some of the regular software meetups in London to do some networking with real people. Lots of non-natives, and non-agents.

The biggest java one (I think) is run by an agent, but face to face you may get some useful advice and or contacts.

www.meetup.com

**d000hg** · 3 July 2011, 14:33

If companies and agents are bringing overseas workers like Bob in, is it really such a problem? I'd have thought in London especially, it's pretty normal since it's so multicultural?

**SueEllen** · 3 July 2011, 20:29

Originally posted by d000hg View Post

If companies and agents are bringing overseas workers like Bob in, is it really such a problem? I'd have thought in London especially, it's pretty normal since it's so multicultural?

Bob and Bobbie sells him/herself on speaking and understanding English plus the British culture and being cheap.

Unfortunately Bob tends to have issues understanding native English speakers whether they be from Great Britain & NI or other former Colonies. This is made worse by some Bobs absolute refusal to mix with people who aren't the "same" as them regardless of their heritage so they can speak their mother tongue socially.*

Bobbie does have issues as well mixing with native English speakers but she tends to have better interpersonal skills that make up for the lack of understanding plus realises there are some advantages in talking to female native English speakers in social situations.

In regards to mainland Europeans well they seem willing to talk to anyone.......

*Bobs tend not to realise that due to London's multicultural nature there are people who can actually understand their conversations in their mother tongue who don't share any of their heritage.

Please note this is a generalisation there are Bobs/Bobbies who break the mould.

**Wanderer** · 4 July 2011, 06:38

Originally posted by doodab View Post

What European language(s) do you speak? You may be better off somewhere than London.

I was thinking that too, in all honesty it is probably the best advice.

Moving to London with limited English will be a sink or swim move. I have good friends who have done it and stuck it out but they said it was hard work.

Getting a professional job is tough too, you need to be able to scope out requirements and stuff to be able to do your job.

Good luck with whatever you do.

**KaiserWilly** · 4 July 2011, 14:05

Originally posted by VietnamZombie View Post

What I'm trying to do is compare the "Internet-perception" to the real opinion of people actually working there.

Thanks in advance,

Y en que idioma hablabas cuando vivias en SE Asia?

Si te da miedo ir a Londres siempre puedes venirte al norte de Europa, donde el ingles que se habla es macarronico pero suficiente para trabajar. Conmigo trabaja un mejicano que habla ingles como el culo, pero mientras saques el trabajo, aqui a nadie le importa demasiado si suenas como Shakespeare o no.

**VietnamZombie** · 5 July 2011, 11:47

@Clever Hans Thanks for your suggestion - It's a good idea.

@Wanderer

Moving to London with limited English will be a sink or swim move. I have good friends who have done it and stuck it out but they said it was hard work.

Yes, it's not going to be easy. But as you know in IT development most of the time you are working in front of your computer (in fact, that's the thing I hate most about computer programming: some weeks it's like a form of autism).

My point is: I'm completely aware of the struggle every day -for the first month at least-. I fully understand that it's not the best scenario. But I also know that I've been working with some French guys with an extremely limited Spanish (far more than my English) and it wasn't as bad as it seemed (on the other hand, the guys were really good professionals). Can that be my situation in London for the first weeks? I'm not sure. From what SueEllen said, no, I might not even get a chance.

On the other hand, I'm going to offer a really nice profile (you know that there is a big difference in IT between real people with a passion for what they do and 9-to-5 workers who just don't give a tulip) of someone with 11 years of experience in several multinational companies -backed not only by my managers on them but also by my clients- for the price of a junior profile. Will I make it? I don't know. That's why I'm asking here first

@KaiserWilly

[In Spanish] asking what language I was using while I was in SE Asia

English, of course. It's not like I don't speak English at all but, truth be told, you don't need to be Shakespeare to deal with normal life activities in SE Asia

In my job I used Skype for remote working. Since most conversations were using it or by email, there was 0 problems.

And, last but not the least, thank you all for your comments. It's was really great to find a forum like this one.

Moving to London for the first time