Reply to: Moving to London for the first time

[stek]

The current mrs stek is a translator/interpreter and often tells me that we need to gain clues from facial expression and mouth shapes when conversing with people in non-native languages.

Hence it's impossible to understand a Bob on the phone, but face to face its slightly more possible.

[helpFul]

@VietnamZombie
...BTW There is a tendency in the UK for people to want you to interact with them daily verbally...

What is your authority for that proposition?

[StarApple]

Stick your CV on the many, many job websites here in the UK.

You may wish to not come to London but actually outside of London as it is very expensive. You may also wish to look at Spanish companies based in the UK. Santander comes to mind right away.

To get a job in the UK you have to be here. You may get a job which is not customer facing. Once here get out and mingle with the people and learn to speak the language.

You may get a lower paying job, but if you work on your langue skills you will eventually get back to the working level you were at before.

You may get a job in the UK where you have to speak Spanish all day to Spanish customers in Spain.

[VietnamZombie]

@d000hg That's what I'm trying to do now (via. Skype). Also I'm trying to spend as many hours as I can watching movies and TV shows with a British accent (I think I'm going to become an expert in Monthy Python's Flying Circus).

Thanks for the suggestion!

[d000hg]

Is it possible you can find a way to do at least 1-2 hours speaking in English every day? Maybe some internet site lets people do this who want to practice language skills, or you could phone up phone companies or go into shops and ask about their products at length, and then leave.

[BlaueReitgerte]

@d000hg & @Wanderer Spoken English is really hard for Spanish speakers for several reasons -we don't have so many vowel or consonant sounds, not even link words so hard and our 'accent' is rather limited-.

In Asia english is... unbelievable - Humor: el inglés en Asia | Destino: Tailandia

My spoken English is really bad. It's a frustrating experience and I'm trying to fix it. But living in an English country seems to be a major requirement

Dont bother! my fist job in switzerland was english speaking. I was shocked! had no idear how to survive for more then a few days. 4 weeks later i had the impression, i learned more english than that 6 years in school :-) and by the way, thats a funny post, haha

[VietnamZombie]

@d000hg & @Wanderer Spoken English is really hard for Spanish speakers for several reasons -we don't have so many vowel or consonant sounds, not even link words so hard and our 'accent' is rather limited-.

In Asia english is... unbelievable - Humor: el inglés en Asia | Destino: Tailandia

My spoken English is really bad. It's a frustrating experience and I'm trying to fix it. But living in an English country seems to be a major requirement

[Wanderer]

If your English is good enough to talk with people in foreign countries, it should be good enough to talk with English people? I'm wondering how bad it really is.

Yeah, me too.. VietnamZombie, your written English is very good, probably better than some of the English natives who post here.

Either that or you have a some very good translator software.

[d000hg]

If your English is good enough to talk with people in foreign countries, it should be good enough to talk with English people? I'm wondering how bad it really is.

[VietnamZombie]

@Sue May I ask what do you for a living in UK ?

[SueEllen]

@VietnamZombie what you are failing to realise that while there is a contract market it's competitive not only in London but around the UK.

If you don't have any experience of contracting then very few agents will be interested in you.

The fact that your English isn't fluent is another minus point as it's common for people to interview you on the phone only. It's hard enough to get technical points over to people when you are in the same room let alone when you are talking down the phone and can't draw a diagram.

You do have a chance in the permanent market mainly due to the shortage of people with years of experience who are willing to take on permanent work due to the habit of IT companies overworking people and not giving them pay rises. However even then with your English skills some companies just won't recruit you.

BTW There is a tendency in the UK for people to want you to interact with them daily verbally whether you are working remotely or in an office - even if it's just to have a coffee break.

[VietnamZombie]

@Clever Hans Thanks for your suggestion - It's a good idea.

@Wanderer

Moving to London with limited English will be a sink or swim move. I have good friends who have done it and stuck it out but they said it was hard work.

Yes, it's not going to be easy. But as you know in IT development most of the time you are working in front of your computer (in fact, that's the thing I hate most about computer programming: some weeks it's like a form of autism).

My point is: I'm completely aware of the struggle every day -for the first month at least-. I fully understand that it's not the best scenario. But I also know that I've been working with some French guys with an extremely limited Spanish (far more than my English) and it wasn't as bad as it seemed (on the other hand, the guys were really good professionals). Can that be my situation in London for the first weeks? I'm not sure. From what SueEllen said, no, I might not even get a chance.

On the other hand, I'm going to offer a really nice profile (you know that there is a big difference in IT between real people with a passion for what they do and 9-to-5 workers who just don't give a tulip) of someone with 11 years of experience in several multinational companies -backed not only by my managers on them but also by my clients- for the price of a junior profile. Will I make it? I don't know. That's why I'm asking here first

@KaiserWilly

[In Spanish] asking what language I was using while I was in SE Asia

English, of course. It's not like I don't speak English at all but, truth be told, you don't need to be Shakespeare to deal with normal life activities in SE Asia

In my job I used Skype for remote working. Since most conversations were using it or by email, there was 0 problems.

And, last but not the least, thank you all for your comments. It's was really great to find a forum like this one.

[KaiserWilly]

What I'm trying to do is compare the "Internet-perception" to the real opinion of people actually working there.

Thanks in advance,

Y en que idioma hablabas cuando vivias en SE Asia?

Si te da miedo ir a Londres siempre puedes venirte al norte de Europa, donde el ingles que se habla es macarronico pero suficiente para trabajar. Conmigo trabaja un mejicano que habla ingles como el culo, pero mientras saques el trabajo, aqui a nadie le importa demasiado si suenas como Shakespeare o no.

[Wanderer]

What European language(s) do you speak? You may be better off somewhere than London.

I was thinking that too, in all honesty it is probably the best advice.

Moving to London with limited English will be a sink or swim move. I have good friends who have done it and stuck it out but they said it was hard work.

Getting a professional job is tough too, you need to be able to scope out requirements and stuff to be able to do your job.

Good luck with whatever you do.

[SueEllen]

If companies and agents are bringing overseas workers like Bob in, is it really such a problem? I'd have thought in London especially, it's pretty normal since it's so multicultural?

Bob and Bobbie sells him/herself on speaking and understanding English plus the British culture and being cheap.

Unfortunately Bob tends to have issues understanding native English speakers whether they be from Great Britain & NI or other former Colonies. This is made worse by some Bobs absolute refusal to mix with people who aren't the "same" as them regardless of their heritage so they can speak their mother tongue socially.*

Bobbie does have issues as well mixing with native English speakers but she tends to have better interpersonal skills that make up for the lack of understanding plus realises there are some advantages in talking to female native English speakers in social situations.

In regards to mainland Europeans well they seem willing to talk to anyone.......


*Bobs tend not to realise that due to London's multicultural nature there are people who can actually understand their conversations in their mother tongue who don't share any of their heritage.

Please note this is a generalisation there are Bobs/Bobbies who break the mould.