Opt out of Conduct of employment agencies 2003 act?

[malvolio]

If I had a war chest to rely on and years of gigs behind me I would do this, but I'm only a couple of contracts in so unfortunately I'm going to go with the opt-out contract, pending review.

Your call, but that doesn't actually prevent you shopping them to the EAI team. Also, your opt out is almost certainly invalid anyway.

[psychocandy]

Is it really worth walking away from a contract for something like this, I would say no. Agree its not cricket but its the real world we all live in...

Exactly. Theres being right and doing the right then but then ending up without a contract because of it.

Of course, if everyone stuck up for it then it'd work but the trouble is agencies know most contractors wont. In fact, is there any evidence that anything has ever been done about an agency that has been reported in this way?

[psychocandy]

Your call, but that doesn't actually prevent you shopping them to the EAI team. Also, your opt out is almost certainly invalid anyway.

and cant you withdraw opt out anyway up until start date?

Sign up with opt out then time it so a letter arrives on the day the new gig starts. They're hardly going to pull you from the client are they?

Might upset them a bith though but it'd be fun.

[BolshieBastard]

Yeah well, the one sure way to make sure nothing happens is to do nothing. some of us prefer to take action and if more people understood the rules and the remedies available to them, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. But until contracting is no longer driven by amateurs on one side and charlatans on the other, nothing will change.

Well you can stamp your little feet and scream all you want. PCG created the mess by insisting on this crap!

They've not succeeded in getting any worthwhile change regarding security clearance fiasco and you / they won't with this. There's now too much vested interest and clap trap by agencies.

[Daplayer321]

Hi,

I have basically understood that by not opting out there should be no IR35 implications and that the third party agent cannot withhold any money.

In my situation (just recently got offer of a new contract - first timer), the agent is a direct recuriter of the client (internal HR dealing with contracts), do the same rules apply? do i still decide not to opt out?

Thanks

[tractor]

...

Hi,

I have basically understood that by not opting out there should be no IR35 implications and that the third party agent cannot withhold any money.

In my situation (just recently got offer of a new contract - first timer), the agent is a direct recuriter of the client (internal HR dealing with contracts), do the same rules apply? do i still decide not to opt out?

Thanks

I'm not sure you are describing the commercial arrangement well.

If the contract arrangement is YourCo -> agent -> Client then yes the regulations apply and you can either opt out or ignore it and be not opted out - there is actually no such thing as opted in even though that is the effect of not opting out.

If the contract arrangement is YourCo -> Client then the regulations can not apply and are irrelevant in your circumstances.

[TheFaQQer]

In my situation (just recently got offer of a new contract - first timer), the agent is a direct recuriter of the client (internal HR dealing with contracts), do the same rules apply? do i still decide not to opt out?

Internal HR are not operating as an Employment Business or an Employment Agency, therefore the agency regulations cannot apply.

If the client has a separate agency (for example Steria Recruitment), then they would be acting as an EB or EA so the regulations could apply.

From what you say, it's the former rather than the latter in your case, though. I suggest that you really, really need to work this out (it's been pointed out in your other thread) before you get too deep.

[youngguy]

Opting out & BET

If I understand correctly, the main benefits of not opting out are:-
- Guaranteed payment from Agency, even if the Client does not pay
- Restrictions on working for the end client after the end of the contract limited to 8 weeks.

I know the BETs are being scrapped come April 15, but they are still being used right now. One of the BETs is about whether you have ever lost any money (not been paid).

As such, would opting in have any affect on the strength of IR35 (as per the BETs).

For me, I am far more concerned about tax implications and IR35 status than staying opted in for benefits which I can't a high chance of me ever invoking.

[TheFaQQer]

If I understand correctly, the main benefits of not opting out are:-
- Guaranteed payment from Agency, even if the Client does not pay
- Restrictions on working for the end client after the end of the contract limited to 8 weeks.

I know the BETs are being scrapped come April 15, but they are still being used right now. One of the BETs is about whether you have ever lost any money (not been paid).

As such, would opting in have any affect on the strength of IR35 (as per the BETs).

For me, I am far more concerned about tax implications and IR35 status than staying opted in for benefits which I can't a high chance of me ever invoking.

If the agency don't pay you for whatever reason, then you might get some extra points on the BET. If you get enough points on the BET then they will shut down an IR35 investigation early, as long as you can prove it.

Opting out of the agency regulations MIGHT increase the chances of you not being paid, and in that event, then it would give you some more points, so could shut down the investigation early.

However, IMHO, the potential costs to your business of opting out of the agency regulations and not being paid do not outweigh the benefits. The impact on IR35 is negligible at best, so I cannot understand why people would want to sign away the right to be paid money that you are owed.

If there was an IR35 investigation and you weren't low risk, then your opt out status would have no bearing on any of the three pillars of an IR35 case.

[Contreras]

If I understand correctly, the main benefits of not opting out are:-
- Guaranteed payment from Agency, even if the Client does not pay

Not quite - you may need to take legal action, get a court judgement, send in the boys... and even then there is no guarantee.

If opted-out you can still do all that... obviously more of a challenge and possibly involving the client too.

A real business would be doing what it could to protect its revenue, not chasing a silly points-based system.