Opt out of Conduct of employment agencies 2003 act?

[tractor]

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I'm new to contracting and having read this thread I was pretty much set on declining the EAA opt out, but I've just spoken to my accountant SJD who recommend Ltd Companies do opt out because of IR35 implications.

Very confused, if it's really not an issue with IR35 why are one of the biggest contractor accountancy firms recommending we do?

There is no case law that relates to this statute. Only opinions and all are as valid and relevant as each other . SJD are accoumtants and whilst they are very good at that I am sure, if you are going to take legal advice, take it from a lawyer. You wouldn't ask a baker to plumb you in a new bathroom would you? In the same vein, you would not ask your lawyer to fill in your CT forms either.

[Locoblade]

Agreed they aren't the experts but they do offer advice on various aspects of contracting other than direct accountancy so I didn't think it unreasonable to ask.

Just had clarification from them and its not actually to do with IR35 as initially intimated, more to do with appearing as an employee of the agency if you stayed opted in?

[tractor]

...

Agreed they aren't the experts but they do offer advice on various aspects of contracting other than direct accountancy so I didn't think it unreasonable to ask.

Just had clarification from them and its not actually to do with IR35 as initially intimated, more to do with appearing as an employee of the agency if you stayed opted in?

I am afraid that proves my point. Both of the interpretations are sufficiently unfounded to be worthless and the second so wild I am amazed that they were happy to leave you with that impression. Obviously, a lot depends on the rest of the contract and whether you are acting with a Limited company etc.

Like I said, If you re really interested in a professional opinion, ask a lawyer, preferably one who specialises in either Tax law or more importantly, given the impression of those two earlier interpretations, an employment lawyer.

[Locoblade]

Thanks, will do

[D3K]

Hi all, my recruiter has sent me a bunch of compliance documentation one of which is the opt-out form. The way it's set out seems pretty dodgy, it's not a 'would you like to opt-in or out' it's just a 'you need to complete this form'.

However, they've already found me a role which I've been working in for a couple of weeks. My understanding from reading other posts on this forum is that makes any opt-out form unenforceable and I'll be 'opt-in' for the duration of this contract regardless.

From what I've read I think opting in is generally better for the contractor (i.e. me), but rather than saying I don't want to opt-out, should I just sign the form seeing as it'll be unenforceable anyway? If I then start a new contract through this agent at a later date I could then opt back in at that time (given a weeks notice)? Would there be any negative to taking this approach?

[malvolio]

Hi all, my recruiter has sent me a bunch of compliance documentation one of which is the opt-out form. The way it's set out seems pretty dodgy, it's not a 'would you like to opt-in or out' it's just a 'you need to complete this form'.

However, they've already found me a role which I've been working in for a couple of weeks. My understanding from reading other posts on this forum is that makes any opt-out form unenforceable and I'll be 'opt-in' for the duration of this contract regardless.

From what I've read I think opting in is generally better for the contractor (i.e. me), but rather than saying I don't want to opt-out, should I just sign the form seeing as it'll be unenforceable anyway? If I then start a new contract through this agent at a later date I could then opt back in at that time (given a weeks notice)? Would there be any negative to taking this approach?

Try asking the agency how they think you can opt out, given you have been introduced by any interpretation of the term and you have a valid contract in place. Would be interesting to hear their answer...

[BolshieBastard]

Try asking the agency how they think you can opt out, given you have been introduced by any interpretation of the term and you have a valid contract in place. Would be interesting to hear their answer...

Well you can try asking Rullion, Manchester that and they'll tell you to opt out. If you arent prepared to opt out, dont expect your application to be submitted.

[malvolio]

Well you can try asking Rullion, Manchester that and they'll tell you to opt out. If you arent prepared to opt out, dont expect your application to be submitted.

Anyone can choose who they want to do business with; we aren't going to legislate agasint that.

My approach is rather more anarchic. If we all simply sign whatever Opt Out bollocks is put in front of us, recognising that it is almost certainly invalid if challenged and we all remain opted in anyway, the whole nonsense ceases to have any meaning; you get your IR35 friendly contract and if you do actually need the protections on offer (although I believe we never will; such things should be detailed in the contract anyway), you will probably win in court.

[BolshieBastard]

Anyone can choose who they want to do business with; we aren't going to legislate agasint that.

My approach is rather more anarchic. If we all simply sign whatever Opt Out bollocks is put in front of us, recognising that it is almost certainly invalid if challenged and we all remain opted in anyway, the whole nonsense ceases to have any meaning; you get your IR35 friendly contract and if you do actually need the protections on offer (although I believe we never will; such things should be detailed in the contract anyway), you will probably win in court.

Ah, the head in the sand approach. I doubt a court would find in your favour on the basis that you considered what you were signing had no legal standing but did so all the same for convenience.

Good luck with that.

[TheFaQQer]

Ah, the head in the sand approach. I doubt a court would find in your favour on the basis that you considered what you were signing had no legal standing but did so all the same for convenience.

Good luck with that.

One of the basic tenets of contract law is that there has to be an intention to create legal relations.