Opt out of Conduct of employment agencies 2003 act?

[DirtyDog]

Sadly I'm not experienced enough to articulate the argument with confidence - having read this thread I'm certain he's not being truthful with me but I don't have the words to rebuttle. So I either opt-out when I don't want to or wait for the next one to come along...

Or you research the argument properly so that you can articulate that with the agent. They cannot make your opt out status a condition of getting the role, but they can always give you a VERY different contract if you opt in - one agent I had tried to make me personally liable for things, removed the right of substitution, essentially made me inside IR35.

Maybe that's what agents mean when they say not opting out may impact your IR35 status...

[craig1]

I've now seen this from the client side. I sent out a spec for 10 roles, the sole PSL agency came back with the draft bid for the work (fixed margin, etc) and part of the bid document had this exact paragraph:

"We acknowledge and respect your firm requirement that all candidates be opted out of the Agency Worker Regulations in order to protect your legal position. We also acknowledge that, at your request, we will not send you any candidates who have not opted out in advance. Finally, we acknowledge your request that any contractor who changes his opt-out position should be immediately removed from site."

Some very naughty things going in there that could potentially transfer any liability from agency to client if there ever were a formal complaint made by a contractor that was actually followed up by the relevant government bodies. I returned the bid with that paragraph removed in tracked changes as well as a couple of other naughty things that they're probably used to slipping in.

[kevpuk]

I have found that in both of my last 2 contracts that the Opt-out is likely going to be invalid, so have signed-up to save the bother.
In both cases, the Opt-out forms have been supplied just days before commencing on-site, so considerably after introduced to the Client....

[psychocandy]

I have found that in both of my last 2 contracts that the Opt-out is likely going to be invalid, so have signed-up to save the bother.
In both cases, the Opt-out forms have been supplied just days before commencing on-site, so considerably after introduced to the Client....

Theres an argument for that. Most agents are clueless and the argument is that if you've had the interview etc and already been introduced to the client then asking you to sign an opt out before you start is invalid anyway.

So, rather than cause grief arguing with agent just sign it, knowing that if you ever needed to invoke you've got a good chance because of this.

Although would be interested to see if anyone has ever done this?

i.e. chased agency for money if client hasn't paid them, stating that there weren't opted out after all despite what agency thinks. Can't imagine agency would see it that way.

[SueEllen]

I've now seen this from the client side. I sent out a spec for 10 roles, the sole PSL agency came back with the draft bid for the work (fixed margin, etc) and part of the bid document had this exact paragraph:

"We acknowledge and respect your firm requirement that all candidates be opted out of the Agency Worker Regulations in order to protect your legal position. We also acknowledge that, at your request, we will not send you any candidates who have not opted out in advance. Finally, we acknowledge your request that any contractor who changes his opt-out position should be immediately removed from site."

Some very naughty things going in there that could potentially transfer any liability from agency to client if there ever were a formal complaint made by a contractor that was actually followed up by the relevant government bodies. I returned the bid with that paragraph removed in tracked changes as well as a couple of other naughty things that they're probably used to slipping in.

Agency workers regulations aren't the same as the Conduct regulations, and you really don't want contractors to opt out as it makes it easier for you if the agency screws up.

In two of my recent contracts with a bit of googling I found the agencies' standard client terms online so I refused to opt-out of the conduct regulations. I didn't need to threaten the agency with the client but I knew if I had too I could sell the reason I don't want to opt-out to the client.

[craig1]

Agency workers regulations aren't the same as the Conduct regulations, and you really don't want contractors to opt out as it makes it easier for you if the agency screws up.

In two of my recent contracts with a bit of googling I found the agencies' standard client terms online so I refused to opt-out of the conduct regulations. I didn't need to threaten the agency with the client but I knew if I had too I could sell the reason I don't want to opt-out to the client.

I didn't want to "educate" them on the difference between AWR and Conduct regs... the more ignorant they are, the greater my rights as a contractor are. As the "client" this time, I just deleted the terms, if they didn't want the business then they could refuse to remove them, they didn't.

[psychocandy]

So has anyone ever complained about an agency and seen something done?

Way I see it is even if you complain and agency gets slap on the wrist maybe all that happens is that you probably lose the gig and some other mug gets its. Might be the right thing to do of course.

The whole system is a joke. Can't believe you can't email/web form in a complaint either. There should be an easy way to report breaches without having the faff of phoning.

Maybe then it would sink in with the governing body how much of an issue it is when they get a volume of complaints.

[Wanderer]

Maybe then it would sink in with the governing body how much of an issue it is when they get a volume of complaints.

They seem to be in denial about it, indeed they were talking about getting rid of the agency regulations completely. Unfortunately the PCG aren't supporting freelancers who don't want to opt out either.....

[malvolio]

They seem to be in denial about it, indeed they were talking about getting rid of the agency regulations completely. Unfortunately the PCG aren't supporting freelancers who don't want to opt out either.....

Yes they are. I prodded that particular stick yesterday, but there is a detailed members' guide to the pros and cons so you can make up your own mind about what the agency are telling you.

There are more important issues right now though with all the carp about PSCs and pre-emptive tax demands.

[Andy Hallett]

I've now seen this from the client side. I sent out a spec for 10 roles, the sole PSL agency came back with the draft bid for the work (fixed margin, etc) and part of the bid document had this exact paragraph:

"We acknowledge and respect your firm requirement that all candidates be opted out of the Agency Worker Regulations in order to protect your legal position. We also acknowledge that, at your request, we will not send you any candidates who have not opted out in advance. Finally, we acknowledge your request that any contractor who changes his opt-out position should be immediately removed from site."

Some very naughty things going in there that could potentially transfer any liability from agency to client if there ever were a formal complaint made by a contractor that was actually followed up by the relevant government bodies. I returned the bid with that paragraph removed in tracked changes as well as a couple of other naughty things that they're probably used to slipping in.

Wow, that is one confused agency.