Agency Percentage. Does it matter or not?

[MarillionFan]

This is part of what makes this industry unique. How many resellers do you know who sell a product that once offered from a wholesaler, can change it's flaming mind??

The fact is that this industry commodotises the contractor field - I don't like it, and I try not to do it, but the reality of the markets right now is that there are too many people, for not enough jobs.

It can be likened to the IBM PC area if you like - IBM come out with their first PC, and are constantly barraged with sale - they have the saleable product that everyone wants. Everyone else follows suit, and before you know it, the contracts, sales or whatever you want to call them, are split between far too many people.

I ask the question legitimately. My last two contract have expressly stated that the terms of my contract are dependent on the contract between the client & the agency.

How do I know that these are compatiable? A recent client told me to finish up at the end of the week as his contract with the agency stated that he could simply let a contractor go. My side of the contract stated that notice could not be given, but was dependent upon the agency/client contract being in place.

So seems a way to wriggle out of contractual obligations IMO.

[The Agents View]

Oh please. If you don't leach on contractors you leach on permies. Any other "way to make money in this industry"?

If hiring managers were not that lazy, your services won't be needed.

It's not laziness. It takes networking, connections, determination and effort to find the right contractors - we do it all day every day - hiring managers have neither the time, or inclination to do it. Ultimately, if they spent the amount of time we do finding contractors, they'd never fulfill their main function - which is why it gets outsourced to us. Stop thinking the reason we exist is laziness, and realise that a professional agent, will perform that function of a business far mroe effectively, than a hiring manager "trying his hand".

Yes, there are a lot of other ways to make money, from providing attraction strategies, to benchmarking, to contract standardisation across the contractor supply chain, to retained managed service, to providing a consultancy service for businesses making people redundant, as well as payrolling, oursourced advertising, to retained search....the list goes on.

[d000hg]

It's simple. A contractor can coduct his business even without an agent, but an agent can't earn money without a contractor. The dependency is obvious, so THEY are taking a cut of YOUR money. They exist because you exist, not the other way around.

What about a shop? All they do is buy stuff and sell it for more. It's outrageous and they are taking part of the manufacturer's money for hardly any work.

Put another way, welcome to capitalism. If you can provide something people are prepared to pay for, you make money. Agencies exist because in many cases, clients won't hire individual contractors, or can't be bothered. Either they know the agency takes a cut and consider this is worthwhile, or they are unable to find people directly and don't have much choice.

Saying an agent is not a "real job" because they are a reseller is pretty naive, even if all an agent did do was placing people with a few phone calls.

[Lolas Cat]

Yes, there are a lot of other ways to make money, from providing attraction strategies, to benchmarking, to contract standardisation across the contractor supply chain, to retained managed service, to providing a consultancy service for businesses making people redundant, as well as payrolling, oursourced advertising, to retained search....the list goes on.

I particularly liked "outsourced advertising".

[Lolas Cat]

What about a shop? All they do is buy stuff and sell it for more. It's outrageous and they are taking part of the manufacturer's money for hardly any work.

Put another way, welcome to capitalism. If you can provide something people are prepared to pay for, you make money. Agencies exist because in many cases, clients won't hire individual contractors, or can't be bothered. Either they know the agency takes a cut and consider this is worthwhile, or they are unable to find people directly and don't have much choice.

Saying an agent is not a "real job" because they are a reseller is pretty naive, even if all an agent did do was placing people with a few phone calls.

I got several of my jobs directly from the employers, bypassing any agents, because the hiring managers were doing that job instead of wasting money on recruiters.

I'm not saying being an agent isn't a real job, I'm saying that an agent's job is directly dependent on the existence of contractors/permies. A contractor can earn money without an agent, but not the other way around. Othewise it wouldn't be called a recruitment agency.

[The Agents View]

I got several of my jobs directly from the employers, bypassing any agents, because the hiring managers were doing that job instead of wasting money on recruiters.

I'm not saying being an agent isn't a real job, I'm saying that an agent's job is directly dependent on the existence of contractors/permies. A contractor can earn money without an agent, but not the other way around. Othewise it wouldn't be called a recuitment agency.

I put it to you, that it was the hiring manager wasting money.

By spending time sifting through applications, shortlisting, interviewing, referencing, background checking and all the other lovely stuff that regs say we have to do, he/she was not performing his or her primary function. The cost of this is time, missed opportunity and many other things. Most hiring managers see the agency route as a way to limit this cost, and are prepared to pay an agency to take it away from them. In addition, the agency also takes a degree of risk on, as well as the cost of factoring payments so that contractors are paid regularly and do not suffer from cashflow issues.

Adjust your thinking to us being resource selection outsourcing, and that is probably a better description of what we actually do......

And...outsourced advertising isn't just the stuff you see on job boards. I personally have a CIM marketing qualification, which stands me in good stead in terms of providing complete resourcing advertising solutions.

Don't always assume that everyone comes out of the agency mould that you've clearly been screwed by.....

[scooterscot]

but the reality of the markets right now is that there are too many people, for not enough jobs.

Now that is the biggest pile of steaming something for an excuse.

My sources in industry are quite the opposite. I can think of a dozen clients who have been looking for the best part of a year with no success.

To say the technical expertise in the UK is lacking would be an understatement. One recent interview I was involved in the contractor came highly recommended from the agency xx years experience etc. The cv and the individual were like two different people. Not suitable at all yet the rate expectations of this individual were astounding.

I just sat there with a little smile on my face.


13 years ago labour shouted education ^3, where are the results? Oh yes we have a million historians, 2 million artists, and bog all engineers.

[d000hg]

I got several of my jobs directly from the employers, bypassing any agents, because the hiring managers were doing that job instead of wasting money on recruiters.

Good for you.

I'm not saying being an agent isn't a real job, I'm saying that an agent's job is directly dependent on the existence of contractors/permies. A contractor can earn money without an agent, but not the other way around. Othewise it wouldn't be called a recruitment agency.

Right, and? The fact agents exist only to place contractors doesn't mean it's "your money" any more than the profit a software company makes belongs to the individual developers. The difference between selling something tangible versus intangible is fairly slight.

[CheeseSlice]

I ask the question legitimately. My last two contract have expressly stated that the terms of my contract are dependent on the contract between the client & the agency.

How do I know that these are compatiable? A recent client told me to finish up at the end of the week as his contract with the agency stated that he could simply let a contractor go. My side of the contract stated that notice could not be given, but was dependent upon the agency/client contract being in place.

So seems a way to wriggle out of contractual obligations IMO.

Sounds like the agency/contractor contract was poorly written.
The client/agency agreement could be modified without your knowing, which would clearly be at your disadvantage. If you don't even have access to that contract then it doesn't sound very lawful to me.

Any lawyers on this board?

[scooterscot]

My last two contract have expressly stated that the terms of my contract are dependent on the contract between the client & the agency.

Well then you should be entitled to see a copy of the client/agency contract before you sign anything, otherwise how would you know what you're signing too?

And another thing, you and me both, know those contracts turn to toilet paper when HMRC start sniffing around.