What is your opinion?

[Mordac]

Don't tell us your (wrong) interpretation of the regs and get all surprised when we find you haven't even read them. It leaves us with the impression you are just a cowboy.

>its for you to know what’s in the regs as its for you to decide what to do not me!

As does that.

[privateeye]

I asked a question - you went into confrontational mode!!!

you opt in...you opt out - its for you to know what’s in the regs as its for you to decide what to do not me!

We all need to know whats in them contractor or agent. Trouble is there are too many regulations these days. Regulations need to be regulated

[DodgyAgent]

We all need to know whats in them contractor or agent. Trouble is there are too many regulations these days. Regulations need to be regulated

That may be so private eye, but without them busy bodies like you would have nothing to do.

[malvolio]

The point stands that opt in and opt opt require differnt contract clauses (to be precise, the removal of several that cease to be relevant but which , if left in, could be held to be bad for IR35 status - specifically the removal of commercial risk and some areas of Mutuality).

So I repeat that it is disturbing to discover (or more actually, to have it confirmed) that one party to the agreement has no idea what they are signing. I thought that was what we're always being accused of doing...

[Mailman]

The point stands that opt in and opt opt require differnt contract clauses (to be precise, the removal of several that cease to be relevant but which , if left in, could be held to be bad for IR35 status - specifically the removal of commercial risk and some areas of Mutuality).

For the love of Alah...whether you are opted in or out or shake it all about makes absolutely no difference to your IR35 status!

If Gordo and his henchmen come for you it aint gonna make an iota of difference whether you are opted in or out! Its as simple as that!

Unfortunately there are dodgy agents out there who use this lie to "trick" morons who shouldnt be contracting to opt out of the regs.

So I repeat that it is disturbing to discover (or more actually, to have it confirmed) that one party to the agreement has no idea what they are signing. I thought that was what we're always being accused of doing...

Unfortunately this seems to be the norm! Certainly when I was dragging some dodgy f*ckers through the courts here I was rolling on the floor with laughter because the agents really had no idea about the regs and were boxing way out of their league when confronted by a contractor who wasnt gonna role over and play doggie for them!

Mailman

[malvolio]

Mailman, go away and learn to think, then try again. Let us assume the agency has had a head fit and has constructed contracts to reflect both situations and managed to apply them properly. Two examples then,

• Opted in, you will be paid by the agency regardless, opted out you won't be. Ergo, opted-in you carry no financial risk, any such risk being carried by a 3rd party on your behalf, and so clearly you cannot be in business on your own account. Ergo you are a disguised employee. Ergo you are firmly and demonstrably liable to be taxed under IR35.

• Opted in, you cannot be held responsible for the quality of your work and are not obligated to repair errors at your own cost. That kills the IBOYA test again and lo, you are caught by IR35.

There are others. The decision is not an IR35 pointer in either direction, the contractual obligations that result most definitely are.

[DodgyAgent]

For the love of Alah...whether you are opted in or out or shake it all about makes absolutely no difference to your IR35 status!

If Gordo and his henchmen come for you it aint gonna make an iota of difference whether you are opted in or out! Its as simple as that!

Unfortunately there are dodgy agents out there who use this lie to "trick" morons who shouldnt be contracting to opt out of the regs.



Unfortunately this seems to be the norm! Certainly when I was dragging some dodgy f*ckers through the courts here I was rolling on the floor with laughter because the agents really had no idea about the regs and were boxing way out of their league when confronted by a contractor who wasnt gonna role over and play doggie for them!

Mailman

I am beginning to think mailman that you are another Denny; what a sad ****er you must be to have the time to be bothered to go to court over whether a contractor should opt in or opt out (whatever it all means).
Or is it that deep smell of bulltulip that I can sense??

[bangface]

For the love of Alah...whether you are opted in or out or shake it all about makes absolutely no difference to your IR35 status!
Mailman

Of course it makes a difference. One of the main reasons why a contractor opts out of the regs is to maintain a Business to Business relationship rather than a relationship akin to employment.

I appreciate its just a factor of the process, but nonetheless its still a contributing factor to whether a person is deemed inside or outside of IR35.

[Mailman]

I am beginning to think mailman that you are another Denny; what a sad ****er you must be to have the time to be bothered to go to court over whether a contractor should opt in or opt out (whatever it all means).
Or is it that deep smell of bulltulip that I can sense??

Actually my dear old boy, the reason I took the dodgy agents to the cleaners was because they tried to stiff me for several thousand pounds (and then demanded even more on top claiming I owed them that for loss of business).

Unfortunately for them the courts disagreed and agreed that the money was mine, not theres and the only reason I won my case was because I had opted in to the regs.

Now, who here is the sad f*cker? Oh thats right, thats you dear child

Mailman

[Mailman]

Of course it makes a difference. One of the main reasons why a contractor opts out of the regs is to maintain a Business to Business relationship rather than a relationship akin to employment.

I appreciate its just a factor of the process, but nonetheless its still a contributing factor to whether a person is deemed inside or outside of IR35.

What a lot of twaddle

Being opted in or out does not make one jot of difference to Gordon Brown. For example, my old contract stated clearly that I can work from where ever I wanted to and how ever I wanted to as long as my job was carried out and I did what was required of me. I could also provide a substitute (which I did on several occassions) without prior approval from the client...yet here you are trying to tell me the only point Gordo and co will consider was the fact I had opted in!

You also may want to check out the advice that has already been provided by John Antsell, he has said on a number of occassions on the main page that being opted in or out isnt a contributing factor to being IR35 caught.

You know with f*ckwits like yourself running around out there its no wonder contractors get ripped as much as they do!

Mailman