C# Devs Needed - 3 Years Experience

[stek]

who is this joey?

Joey Deacon?

[Iron Condor]

Joey Deacon?

I remember him on Blue Peter and kids at our school pulling spastic faces.. clearly our school was not the only one:

From wikipedia:

Joey Deacon was featured on the children's magazine programme Blue Peter for the International Year of the Disabled (1981). He was presented as an example of a man who achieved a lot in spite of his disabilities. However, despite the positive light in which the programme's editor was trying to present his story, the impact was not as intended. The sights and sounds of Joey's distinctive speech and movements had a lasting impact on young viewers, who quickly learnt to imitate them. Joey's name and mannerisms quickly became a label of ridicule in school playgrounds across the country.

Definitlely a lasting impact as 30 years on, he still gets mentioned.

[kingshuk]

joey, most developers don't work at an IB or in london.

On a slightly different topic just out of curiosity - do the really good grads from good universities here tend to join IBs? I think it would be a poor career choice in terms of learning oppurtunities. Don't the bright kids want to join good software/hardware companies in UK?

In India the top computer science/electronic grads want to join some tech companies instead of writing business apps in banks/IT services companies.

[Scary]

On a slightly different topic just out of curiosity - do the really good grads from good universities here tend to join IBs? I think it would be a poor career choice in terms of learning oppurtunities. Don't the bright kids want to join good software/hardware companies in UK?

In India the top computer science/electronic grads want to join some tech companies instead of writing business apps in banks/IT services companies.

Interesting sci/tech jobs tend not to spend 30k+ on fresh grads. Often less than 30k even with a PhD and experience...

Unfortunately money talks and a generation of interesting science has been lost to thinking up new ways of flogging bad debt.

[Tarquin Farquhar]

Interesting sci/tech jobs tend not to spend 30k+ on fresh grads. Often less than 30k even with a PhD and experience...

Unfortunately money talks and a generation of interesting science has been lost to thinking up new ways of flogging bad debt.

Now that is scary

[Olly]

Joey, can I just say something...if you're a sockpuppet then I must congratulate you on having the imagination to write such annoying drivel.

If you're real then crikey you make me feel like giving you a slap even though I'm a skinny little pacifist.

[kingshuk]

Interesting sci/tech jobs tend not to spend 30k+ on fresh grads. Often less than 30k even with a PhD and experience...

Unfortunately money talks and a generation of interesting science has been lost to thinking up new ways of flogging bad debt.

I see. In India salary in good tech companies are comparable to IB starting salary. So it isn't such a difficult choice. I think IBs are very poor choice as first/second employer if one wants to learn good programming/tech skills.

[nomadd]

On a slightly different topic just out of curiosity - do the really good grads from good universities here tend to join IBs? I think it would be a poor career choice in terms of learning oppurtunities. Don't the bright kids want to join good software/hardware companies in UK?

And those companies would be..?

In all honesty, we don't really have anything left outside of IB in this country, apart from a bit of defence work.

When I left Uni., I joined Logica. They were a good company to work for back then, with lots of interesting projects. Now they've become like all other software houses, feeding off IBs and Defence clients, body-shopping their permies whilst paying them peanuts. They also have a significant number of Indian staff, working both onshore and offshore for less than peanuts.

My last two banking roles have been through large UK consultancies. The last one of these proudly boasted to the client that 90% of their work was now sent offshore to India. They hoped that would be 95% by the end of 2010. Go figure.

As regards R&D work for "bright grads", take a look at New Scientist's jobs section. I've seen roles in there that require a BSc (first class), Phd, and a minimum of 5 years commercial experience. Salaries tend to be £20-25k - and half of these jobs are based in London. The numbers just don't add up.

As one candidate - a top Physics Grad. - stated in the New Scientist careers pull-out last year: "I did my Phd in Physics in an attempt to understand what made the world go around; once I'd figured out it was money, I joined an Investment Bank." Such a waste. But at least the guy isn't starving.

[d000hg]

I see. In India salary in good tech companies are comparable to IB starting salary. So it isn't such a difficult choice. I think IBs are very poor choice as first/second employer if one wants to learn good programming/tech skills.

I disagree. I'm sure it varies but when I worked on IB stuff, it was a chance to work on projects within a really big infrastructure. Exposure to giant datasets, decent dev/staging/production process, use of ant/maven/svn, unit testing, use of many existing bespoke and open-source libraries (like Apache).

All in all, it was a good learning experience.

[nomadd]

...use of ant/maven/svn, unit testing, use of many existing bespoke and open-source libraries (like Apache).

Yep, my current IB client uses all that lot, plus Mockito, JUnit, etc. Mind you, they've decided all of that is "old hat" now and have jumped on the Groovy/Grails bandwagon. That's now put them up against the other part of the Bank that thinks Scala is the "new Java" and are going that way. Interesting times, even if only for my cv.