Job Finding Help

[richard_mey]

Hello gals and guys,

I wanted to ask a question, but it's not just your normal typical post about having difficult finding a role.

Basically, as I am mid twenties, with no dependants, I've been applying for obscure roles. You know the sort, middle-East, Africa, roles demanding international travel to different sites for length stints. I see these as a good way of building up more confidence and experience in the computer networking sector.

Agencies aren't even getting back to me at all, and my CV has been commented upon as very good. I've worked in permanent or contract jobs (about 5) since I was 19, and when also at university. I done a lot of juggling.

I've removed dates from my CV which may give a clue to my age, but even with scripted dull positions, I found out a CCIE had been given it. I was really very surprised at this, given it was just a bit of BGP and OSPF configuration that I could have designed and completed with my eyes shut.

I am really losing confidence, and although I hope things pick up around the end of January, I feel like my skill set (Cisco, network security, et cetera) is exceeding positions, and after being asked for an updated CV, when I try to contact agents, they're always "busy on another line."

Trying not to knock down my self esteem, but part of my conscience says I shouldn't be heading outside of my home city for really bad money. However things are getting desperate. Came back from contract abroad and don't have any assets here, and not a huge amount of savings.

[northernladuk]

as I am mid twenties

middle-East, Africa, roles demanding international travel to different sites for length stints

Sorry but FAIL!!

You have less than 6 years work experience. Period. Why should someone send you to a very difficult/very political area to work in with little to no work experience let alone in country/cultural experience??

Middle east/africa is a very difficult area to work in. It's hard, lonely, politically and culturally sensitive. What do you have to bring someone that needs you out there? Do you have a strong understanding of the cultural/business problems out there? Are you a leader in your field? Proven go getter than can work alone and direct the business?

You getting my drift here?

Get some experience and some years under your belt at the coal face before starting to aim high. You need experience and skills as well as a wise head on you. THere are many guys out there, some with 5 times more working time as well as in country experience under their belts.

IMO you are going about it all wrong and need to go back to basics.

[Fred Bloggs]

You are also competing against tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Asians and Africans often extremely well qualified who will happily work for about 1/3rd of your rate. You have to be a) Red hot and b) Extremely lucky to make a worthwhile career abroad nowadays in my opinion. I quite often see jobs in the Middle East on lower rates than I get in the UK for similar work.

[nomadd]

You are also competing against tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Asians and Africans often extremely well qualified who will happily work for about 1/3rd of your rate. You have to be a) Red hot and b) Extremely lucky to make a worthwhile career abroad nowadays in my opinion. I quite often see jobs in the Middle East on lower rates than I get in the UK for similar work.

WHS^

I flick across Jobserve shows Cisco Networking people being offered roles in the UK at £150-200 per day, but some as low as £14-16 / hour. Overseas, rates seem to be far worse. The boat in that line of work has long since left the dock.

Sure, there are a few roles in the £400-600 / day, but they want 10 years+ experience at an Architect level. And that you haven't got - and even then they want a lot more than you can offer skills wise.

Sorry, but that's just the state of the market on "infrastructure" type roles: most of it has been outsourced and rates have plummeted. I made big bucks in that arena for 10+ years, but have now switched back to Java development for Banks. It was either that, or starve to death as a contractor.

My advice: re-skill.

Nomadd

[Fred Bloggs]

Yes, I've been looking for a prime middle east role for the last two years on and off. I'm at the point of virtually giving up and accepting that I just have to hunker down here in the miserable, depressed UK and make the best of it. Sad, but at the end of the day, as a Ltd Co contractor I think I'm still going to be better placed than most to get by here with a reasonable standard of living.

[richard_mey]

I think 'FAIL' is overly harsh.

I've worked in a wide range of companies over the years, so obviously have been given gigs based on my ability. I haven't worked for unknown businesses, mainly telecommunications and well known and well respected large enterprise and professional services firms. Yes, that ability may be good for my age, but I see that as a benefit.

It isn't often that someone would concentrate on a specific area from a young age, but I've found myself more capable than many folk out there who are double my age, never bothered with professional certification, and just can't keep up with the vast array of technologies present on modern networks. I therefore get gigs worth slightly less money.

I've worked abroad before, at times in very restrictive environments. It may be 6 months here, 3 months there, but surely that is still viewed positively by agencies and end-clients. I work hard and plan on getting my CCIE around the end of 2010 or beginning of 2011.

Re-skilling is important to me, but given the fact networking technologies are never going to go away, I think it's important to still stick to this sector for the time being. Enterprise networks will always need support engineers with a solid background. I have a solid background in networking and some security bits and bobs. I have little interest in the network administration or server side of things, and hate software programming.

I'm sure I will get something soon, as I have never been without a job or contract since I got into this area. I'm not the guy making the tea with the rest of the younger guys in roles, I'm the one working with the older long-termers on detailed design documents, advanced troubleshooting and a whole host of other activities. Don't judge via a forum. I'm not after £400/day, I accept around £180 to £200 now given the hard times.

[pzz76077]

I remember being in a similar position to you back in '83 when I first went to Saudi - came back after 15 months with enough to pay cash for my first house and a BMW convertible.

Sadly, as others have said, those days are long gone and well paying jobs in A&ME are very rare these days.

Skills like CCIE's from The Philippines, India etc are happy to work for 15ph as its more than they can get back home.

Would suggest that you concentrate your search on mainland Europe where being an engineer is still a respected position in society and the evil fingers of cheap outsourcing have not yet reached to any great extent.

PZZ

[richard_mey]

I just wanted to say that I am also applying for anything directly matching what I have done. I'm in the interesting position of finding that there's quite a lot out there in that regard, but I'm just not getting them. That is with just sticking to the UK, as my French is unacceptable.

I fully appreciate being undercut (given my lower desire for a massive rate, that's saying something!) by Indian and other Asian CCIEs, but in my experience many of them are not worthy of those certifications. That could maybe be said of many CCIEs, but with reference to even just the CCxP's, it became pretty obvious to me that they had literally no idea what I was talking about when going over a project summary I had created about a year ago in a role. They were quickly booted out, and I had confirmed before the client hired them that their certifications were valid through the usual methods.

I haven't seen many positions available on mainland Europe, but I may start searching deeper and wider. I don't want to become one of those people who is just firing off a CV to every concievable job with minute relation to my skills, this is what is causing so much trouble at the moment.

[JoJoGabor]

I had the same problem finding work when I moved to contracting when I was 27. I had only held 2 relevant positions. It took 3 months of being unemployed, and I took a more junior role, but I got there, I'm sure you will. I only got the gig as they needed somebody to start the next day and I was available for interview at an hours notice.

Dont give up, its all just a numbers game