Securing your contract work (when being asked what you want)

[TykeMerc]

Ok, I was bored and decided to drop in to see if this bonehead troll had sorted this out, but now it seems that to top off his walking out with effectively no prior indication to the client he's not been paid.

Classic.

Assuming for 5 mins that he's for real (which I really don't believe) then he's been even more astonishingly stupid than I imagined.
Shanti you can whistle for your money unless the client decides to be nice. From the sounds of it he's got absolutely motivation to be nice in any way.

[MaryPoppins]

It does all sound a bit much

[shanti]

I'm fairly sure that guidelines state that agencies must not broach opt in/out within the contract, but I know a lot do it.

You are therefore opted in by default, as I assume you were introduced to the client before you saw the contract. Only really means anything if you take this further legally I guess.

Yep, introduced to the client before opted-out. Good to know in case any posturing occurs by the agency. At the moment the posturing is occuring by the manager.

[MaryPoppins]

Yep, introduced to the client before opted-out. Good to know in case any posturing occurs by the agency. At the moment the posturing is occuring by the manager.

The agency will deny you are opted in, so as I say, only really useful if you plan to take this further. If the contract has a clause re: timeframes for invoices as you state, doesn't sound like you stand much chance of getting anything without taking it further.

[shanti]

Ok, I was bored and decided to drop in to see if this bonehead troll had sorted this out, but now it seems that to top off his walking out with effectively no prior indication to the client he's not been paid.

Classic.

Dude, 1 day's notice is 1 days notice. The client wants to give the contractor 1 day notice and wants the contractor not to be able to provide any notice. I did not want to sign up that cr*p (its rubbish in anycase as you can't be kept anywhere you don't want to work). Reciprocal notice are my terms. They agreed. I served the notice as required (as per previous posts) and got a sign-off by the manager at the end of the last day on the last week's time sheets.

Now it appears the manager was expecting me to come in the following day (what for?... 1 day's notice means if you provide it in the morning your are done by the end of the day). If he wanted someone to come in or complete something, don't sign off the timesheet. Its naffy management and now he is in the sh*t for work which is not getting completed or has fallen through the cracks. I was at his disposal for hours at the end of the day.

Assuming for 5 mins that he's for real (which I really don't believe) then he's been even more astonishingly stupid than I imagined.
Shanti you can whistle for your money unless the client decides to be nice. From the sounds of it he's got absolutely motivation to be nice in any way.

He wants my co-operation to find and deliver work and is stopping the payment for leverage.

Even if I provided assistance, I have no guarantees that full payment would occur - my agreement is with the agency after all. I suppose its Vice of versa for him, if he allowed payment I could clear off and not help out.

... its a weird check-mate and was wondering how to pragmatically resolve it. I would prefer to insist on full payment or guarantee of full payment before helping out.

[TheFaQQer]

Oh dear.

The manager has put a stop to all payment for all the 4 months that I have been working there.

Which manager - the client or the agency? What does the contract say about getting paid - many have a clause that says that you won't get paid if they don't get paid, if you are opted out of the agency regulations.

It took forever to get a signed contract after I started the work, they agency revoked the contract and put knew terms and I had to just suck it up and sign it, then the manager kept on blowing of meeting requests for timesheet sign off. Then I put all the overtime in the timesheets and the manager rejected them (even though was advised to do that by a permie peer). Anycase, I got stuck into the work, and before I knew it the invoices got submitted far later than when I started. I have given notice and left but still waiting for some kind of payment.

To date, have not been paid a penny and feel exposed as it does say in the contract that if your 2 months late with submissions the agency does not have to pay.

So, you have been working for four months and received £0 for it. That seems more than a little bit silly to me, it has to be said. Your exposure here is potentially huge. I guess it's a mistake that you won't be making in the future, so at least something positive will come from this mess.

I have spoke to them about this and they said that they will not always enforce this, but I am in the wrong here, I guess?

The clause is put in there to stop contractors leaving everything to the last minute and then clobbering the agency with a huge bill that they can't chase with the client. If they don't have to pay you, then they won't - they are in business, and are looking to reduce their expenses.

The worse it yet to come..

now the manager has halted any payments by the agency, citing that he does not have any evidence of a deliverable and thus cannot authorize a payment.

I have date and signed timesheets from him for all the work, including the last day where he signed out the last timesheet close of business of my last working day.

Again - is this the client or the agency stopping payment? What does your timesheet say on it - many say something like "I confirm that the work has been completed to a satisfactory standard and my company can be invoiced for the work". If they don't, then this is the second lesson here - make sure that when getting a timesheet, you get something that says that the client is happy with the work - even if that is a timesheet for your own company as well and the manager needs to sign two things each time.

Is it possible for him to stop payment like this?

Yes.

I assume I am based on the time that I work - and not on any deliverable? If I am not delivering they need to terminate the contract.

I don't know what you are paid for - I haven't seen your contract. What does it say?

If I have the signed timesheets and an agreed contract, can the agency be stopped from paying?

They can try, and it seems that they have tried to do it. Whether they are within their rights to do so is a completely different matter.

Opted out. Crafty buggers have mixed together the bit where you Opt out and where you sign the main contract. Although they did provide a DTI form which I agonized over and opted-out. Had to do this as they being a pain over the contract and I could tell the manager was getting annoyed if I did not comply and sign up with everything the agency wanted.

Well - did you really opt out, in writing, before being introduced to the client? The agency are always going to insist that you are opted in, if they can. However, when it comes to court, it's a different matter.

"Valid accurate invoices supported by signed timesheets must be submitted no later than 2 months from the end of the month of which the work was performed. Failure to submit invoices and/or timesheets within the appropriate timescale may result in non-payment (of that invoice/timesheet)."

Have to check the above to see if I did not comply, think I was out of the time period. Its in there, as they client may reject an invoice which is out of that time frame.. but if I can get the client to agree to pay it, does the agency have to pass it on? Judging from the above contract - not eh?

Probably not - you signed a contract which effectively says "if I can't be arsed to do my paperwork on time, then you don't have to pay me". One of the reasons that agencies don't like you opting in is that you can invoice at any stage and get paid. One agency I worked through had a real issue with this - I was opting in so could invoice as and when I wanted to, but they had a client who would only pay for time submitted within six weeks of the work and wouldn't renegotiate it. I still opted in, though.

[northernladuk]

Assuming for one minute this whole carry on is real...

This sounds like a dose of what goes around comes around. Does sound like something like this was going to come your way at some point or other judging by your attitude in the last few threads you posted.

Maybe you take this as a very expensive lesson, walk away from it before you reptutation is totally ruined, re-think your attitude and your aspirations and then try again.

Bored of this thread now. Can't understand why we are still entertaining it.

[cojak]

Assuming for one minute this whole carry on is real...

This sounds like a dose of what goes around comes around. Does sound like something like this was going to come your way at some point or other judging by your attitude in the last few threads you posted.

Maybe you take this as a very expensive lesson, walk away from it before you reptutation is totally ruined, re-think your attitude and your aspirations and then try again.

Bored of this thread now. Can't understand why we are still entertaining it.

I gave up posting pages ago, Dear...

[shanti]

Assuming for one minute this whole carry on is real...

This sounds like a dose of what goes around comes around. Does sound like something like this was going to come your way at some point or other judging by your attitude in the last few threads you posted.

Maybe you take this as a very expensive lesson, walk away from it before you reptutation is totally ruined, re-think your attitude and your aspirations and then try again.

Bored of this thread now. Can't understand why we are still entertaining it.

Can't walk away from it can I? - need payment for work undertaken (if I walk am sure the agent will stuff it into their pockets). If things need sorting out or have been lost due to a 1 days notice departure, I still should get paid for work undertaken.

Will answer the above verbose post - just looking through the contract.

[shanti]

I know this is a drag... but below needs a reply:

Oh dear.

Which manager - the client or the agency? What does the contract say about getting paid - many have a clause that says that you won't get paid if they don't get paid, if you are opted out of the agency regulations.

The consultancy manager has put a stop on all payments by the agency.

We have the below financial stack:

1. The main client pays an in-house IT division,
2. The IT division pays a consultancy (I think)
3. The consultancy pays/authorizes my agency through timesheets
4. Agency then pays me after my invoice


Clause in my agency contract just says "Valid accurate invoices supported by signed timesheets must be submitted no later than 2 months from the end of the month of which the work was performed. Failure to submit invoices and/or timesheets within the appropriate timescale may result in non-payment (of that invoice/timesheet).".

Nothing else about payment based on receiving funds from the client.

So, you have been working for four months and received £0 for it. That seems more than a little bit silly to me, it has to be said. Your exposure here is potentially huge. I guess it's a mistake that you won't be making in the future, so at least something positive will come from this mess.

The clause is put in there to stop contractors leaving everything to the last minute and then clobbering the agency with a huge bill that they can't chase with the client. If they don't have to pay you, then they won't - they are in business, and are looking to reduce their expenses.

Well, the Consultancy manager took forever to sign the timesheets - at least 3 weeks, which increased my exposure. Also the Consultancy will need my assistance with handover - I somehow have to get an assurance of payment for all of the work as a pre-requisite for assistance with handover. That is all I have. Guess I have to get that in writing from the agency? And the agency has to go get that agreement from people above the chain.

Again - is this the client or the agency stopping payment? What does your timesheet say on it - many say something like "I confirm that the work has been completed to a satisfactory standard and my company can be invoiced for the work".

Timesheet has no statement, just standard days. I believe the main client may not pay for invoices over 2 months and hence agency puts that clause in to cover its butt.

I don't know what you are paid for - I haven't seen your contract. What does it say?

Just talks about providing services..." You will provide the Services in a professional manner, with all reasonable skill and care, and in accordance with accepted standards, methodologies, and (where appropriate) guidelines relating to software development. Whilst your method of work will be your own, you will comply with the Client's reasonable requests, within the scope of the Services.". Nothing about fixed-task project, just services.

Well - did you really opt out, in writing, before being introduced to the client? The agency are always going to insist that you are opted in, if they can. However, when it comes to court, it's a different matter.

Am confused here. I opted-out after being introduced to the client. You are saying that is not valid and hence can indicate that I am legally opted-in? Would help ensure the agency complies. If you opted-in do they have to pay within a specific time frame?

Probably not - you signed a contract which effectively says "if I can't be arsed to do my paperwork on time, then you don't have to pay me". One of the reasons that agencies don't like you opting in is that you can invoice at any stage and get paid. One agency I worked through had a real issue with this - I was opting in so could invoice as and when I wanted to, but they had a client who would only pay for time submitted within six weeks of the work and wouldn't renegotiate it. I still opted in, though.

I know I am in deep poo-poo here, but the consultancy will need my assistance and I want to provide it - but I do need some kind of agreement that the agency will eventually pay up - or someone will take responsibility to ensure I get paid the full amount in a reasonable amount of time.