Securing your contract work (when being asked what you want)

[shanti]

Hi - welcome your help chaps:

Am at the point of renegotiation with a contract that I have finished with.

I was on a 1 days notice, either way.

Things were getting out of control and the project was in flux so I handed notice in and was done by the end of the day.

There was a bit more work to be done, but I felt it was being taken away from my plate and handed to others, to the detriment of the client.

The IT consultancy engagement manager, that I am contracted into (via an agency) is open to hearing what I would need to stay.

There are a couple of things.. one being to be allowed autonomy to get on with the work, the other - is some kind of reassurance that I will be retained if the IT consultancy gets a renewal beyond November.

This is currently up in the air, but if they do get their engagement renewed, I would want some kind of assurance I am not going to be ditched (as I have handed in notice and probably have lost some trust in that process). I was getting the vibes that some people were going to be retained beyond November and some were not.

Is there any bullet-proof way of asking for something in the contract which ensures I will be retained if their engagement continues? Is the only method of securing yourself via notice periods?? Can a contractor ask for 1 day notice period on his side and 1 month on the client side - is that ever a realistic thing to ask for?

My sense is that they only way to ensure that I am retained if I go back - is to insist on being given certain projects prior to re-joining - that way I can be assured that I will be required beyond November.

Just wondering if there is a contractual way of getting some kind of re-assurance or being secured up?

Welcome some views to get this clear.

[TheFaQQer]

<BrowneIssueMode>

is some kind of reassurance that I will be retained if the IT consultancy gets a renewal beyond November.

This is currently up in the air, but if they do get their engagement renewed, I would want some kind of assurance I am not going to be ditched (as I have handed in notice and probably have lost some trust in that process). I was getting the vibes that some people were going to be retained beyond November and some were not.

So, you want a mutuality of obligation cause including in your contract. First time I've heard of someone volunteering to be inside IR35 - well done.

Is there any bullet-proof way of asking for something in the contract which ensures I will be retained if their engagement continues?

Yes, include it in the contract. "In the event of the consultancy continuing the engagement beyond XXX, the contractor shall be retained for a further XXX days" (IANAL).

Is the only method of securing yourself via notice periods??

No. And notice periods don't secure yourself, either.

Can a contractor ask for 1 day notice period on his side and 1 month on the client side

Yes

is that ever a realistic thing to ask for?

No

Just wondering if there is a contractual way of getting some kind of re-assurance or being secured up?

There is. Welcome to pseudo-permiedom, and being inside IR35.

</BrowneIssueMode>

[northernladuk]

Lol!! I just love TheFaQQer's replies....

I can't top that one but I have to say your way of going around this aint exactly endearing. You hand your notice in and then attempt to bully your way in to keeping your work going? Doesn't sound like the best platform for good business to be done on. On top of the contractual stuff it sounds like a heap of good favour with the customer wouldn't go amiss.

Good luck with that.

[shanti]

thanks..

<BrowneIssueMode>
So, you want a mutuality of obligation cause including in your contract. First time I've heard of someone volunteering to be inside IR35 - well done.

Yes, include it in the contract. "In the event of the consultancy continuing the engagement beyond XXX, the contractor shall be retained for a further XXX days" (IANAL).

No. And notice periods don't secure yourself, either.

Welcome to pseudo-permiedom, and being inside IR35.

</BrowneIssueMode>

Thanks for the feedback.

Lets put the IR35 issues aside.. will fight that battle through the accontant.

The first aim is to get the protection that would (in the managements mind) not make me an easy target at a future convenient time.

Huh... 1 day on my side, 1 month on their side is not a realistic proposal. Thought as much.

Well... then... even if I ask for "I will be retained based on the consultancy continuing its engagement beyond XXXX.. for a further XX days" on the contract, but still leave in the 1 day reciprocal notice period, I could be whacked whenever they wanted, the additional line would offer no realistic protection.

Is there any other way?

[TheFaQQer]

Lets put the IR35 issues aside.. will fight that battle through the accontant.

No - you will fight that with HMRC. And you will lose if you have a contract and working circumstances that mean that they are obliged to offer you work, and you are obliged to accept it. That is what an employee does, not a supplier.

Well... then... even if I ask for "I will be retained based on the consultancy continuing its engagement beyond XXXX.. for a further XX days" on the contract, but still leave in the 1 day reciprocal notice period, I could be whacked whenever they wanted, the additional line would offer no realistic protection.

Correct. Even if you have a notice period of 100 days on their side and 100 days (or 1 day, or anything in between), they can get rid of you at any stage. You are paid for the work that you do - if you do no work (because they tell you not to come in during the notice period), then you get £0. Notice periods from the client are worse than worthless.

Is there any other way?

Yes. Include a clause which guarantees you n days work, to be completed by xxx date. Include a clause which says that if they terminate the contract early, they will be liable to a penalty clause equal to the number of days remaining on the contract multiplied by the daily rate.

Best of luck getting them to agree to it.

[TykeMerc]

Thanks for the feedback.

Lets put the IR35 issues aside.. will fight that battle through the accontant.

The first aim is to get the protection that would (in the managements mind) not make me an easy target at a future convenient time.

Huh... 1 day on my side, 1 month on their side is not a realistic proposal. Thought as much.

Well... then... even if I ask for "I will be retained based on the consultancy continuing its engagement beyond XXXX.. for a further XX days" on the contract, but still leave in the 1 day reciprocal notice period, I could be whacked whenever they wanted, the additional line would offer no realistic protection.

Is there any other way?

I'm not convinced that you actually understand this contracting lark properly...

IR35 isn't a matter for your accountant, it's about the contract wording and working practices.

The whole point of hiring a contractor is that we're a flexible resource that if the client need goes we go.

A client can get rid of you with no notice at all irrespective of how long a notice period is in the contract, if your contract is in any way IR35 friendly then no work = no pay and the client isn't obliged to find you work.

[centurian]

Lets put the IR35 issues aside.. will fight that battle through the accontant.

And the front line of that battle is your contract. It's the first thing that gets looked at. If that isn't right, you're screwed.

The first aim is to get the protection that would (in the managements mind) not make me an easy target at a future convenient time.

And the only way to (realistically) do that is to create a kind of MOO, which lumbers you for IR35.

The only other way to do it, is to insist on a penalty exit clause, but your chances of getting that are close to zero.

[DiscoStu]

Oh shanti, given the amount of grief you seem intent on causing yourself, do you really think this contracting thing is for you...?

[TykeMerc]

Oh shanti, given the amount of grief you seem intent on causing yourself, do you really think this contracting thing is for you...?

Thanks DiscoStu, I had forgotten he was the muppet responsible for those lunatic threads, I'll pass on this thread now

[TheFaQQer]

Oh shanti, given the amount of grief you seem intent on causing yourself, do you really think this contracting thing is for you...?

I'd missed those ones - I'm enjoying trawling through them now. I think they should be added to BrilloPad's list of great CUK threads....