Theoretical exercise... agents trying to prove their morals

[zamzummim]

I don’t normally provide references to the agent, however, once I did, the agent convinced me that his intentions are completely honest and it’s a task the client has expected him to do, I did believe that agent for some reason, and gave him a reference of a manger I worked with for a while and trusted, I contacted that manager, took his permission to give his name to the agency, and asked him to let me know if that agent ever tried to contact him to solicit business. I must say, the agent proved that he was worth trusting, he did contact my manager, asked about my work, and whether the manager would hire me again if there was a role available, nothing more, never tried to solicit any business from him.
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The agent then submitted my CV and I got the job. I don’t give references to any agent, but as a contractor you need to follow your hunch and see the signs. For example, that agent provided me with a lot of information about the role and the client, so he trusted me with the information, and I felt I could trust his story. However, a couple of weeks ago I did receive a fishing call, you could see those a mile away, e.g. agent not interested to learn about my experience, giving vague information about the role, couldn’t discuss the client /rate etc, this tells me not to trust the agent, and therefore told them my policy of not supplying reference until after the interview.

[NotAllThere]

...
- "I built up a reputation through being honest"...

To which you respond. "Ooh, you little liar!"

[SuperZ]

And herein lies the problem. Ultimately the only way an agent can prove his salt to you, is to prove his salt to you......and I guess that probably means placing you, looking after you, delivering for you - it's the only language interims understand.

Unfortunately, a large proportion of the blame for poor agencies, is poor candidates. As much as sometimes agents scan over good skill sets, I sometimes think that interims literally read a job title, and apply without even looking at the job spec. It should be fairly easy to work out whether you are the "silver bullet" candidate for a role before you apply. If you're a contractor, and you're not the silver bullet, someone will be. If you have less than 80% of the skills that are discussed in the job ad, then why would you even bother applying? You're just promoting your ignorance.

To my mind, Interims/Contractors should be charged a huge fee for every application they make if they can't justify exactly why they have sent their application to you. This is not the permanent market for gods sake - Clients won't wait for you to learn the ropes before delivering.

Imagine it like a flat pack furniture exercise - you buy two chests of drawers - the first one you break screws, lose bits, get royally p'ed off with the instructions, shout at the wife, kill the cat and it takes you hours. The second one, goes together in 20 minutes, looks fantastic, and serves for years to come. On the interim market, THAT is what we're looking for - the person that has already built their bedroom furniture, and knows exactly what to do to get a positive result. Ultimately, our reputation DEPENDS on what you do on site - why would we trust someone that hasn't delivered it before??

In terms of the overall question though (before I went into rant mode) - it's impossible to prove your salt with so much carp around - which is why I build relationships with interims, and clients, in equal measure -I need someone I can trust to deliver, and that will take them when I can supply them - and when they're not in my network - I need to prove that they've done what I need them to.

Find yourself an intelligent, honest, and plugged in recruiter, and stick with them (trust me - they are out there) - build the relationship with them - it'll pay off in the end, I'm sure.

Good luck
TAV

Rubbish

I have landed contracts before where I have not been a match and as have my friends, these specs that we didn`t match were written by clients unaware of the skills in the market. As I approached the agent and later the client, I was offered the positions. Why? I`m not going to answer that myself

An agents job shouldn`t be to just bend over for the client to the demand of their job spec, it should be to help the client to refine the job spec into what skills really exist in the market and the skills that can be obtainable in a reasonable amount of time. Some clients won`t allow this maybe, but I`m sure others would only love to receive some guidance on the job spec so that they can find someone quickly.
Instead agents/agencies harrass clients, obtain any old spec and promise the client they`ll find candidates, advertise,, bung forward candidates, rake in money. Personally I think most agencies and agents provide a crap service to clients and contractors but the clients buy into it for now ......I may have a plan B!.

So if I see a spec that looks a bit "out there" regarding the skills, if I know I can probably do it, I`ll put myself forward. And I`m not wasting anyones time. if the client/agent cant see it like that, that`s their loss and their stupidity.

IMO, most agencies and agents are a waste of time. Today I tried to discuss something with one agency that has a bad reputation. Lets just say I was offering them something on a plate, but instead they decided to revert back to dodgy agency tactics (unethical) to only help themselves trying to get information out of me to only benefit themselves rather than accepting what I had to offer on a plate - they tried to take the plate and me hand

[blacjac]

To my mind, Interims/Contractors should be charged a huge fee for every application they make if they can't justify exactly why they have sent their application to you.

And agents should be charged an even bigger fee for every CV they request if they can't provide exact details of the job being recruited for.....

You must get a good view from the height of that horse.....
Muppet.

[ddilling]

someone pls remind me again why we need agents?

[d000hg]

someone pls remind me again why we need agents?

Because IT contractors tend to have good technical skills but be useless at marketing? Because companies don't want to have to deal individually with every contractor, when an agency can handle all the hassle?

[DodgyAgent]

And herein lies the problem. Ultimately the only way an agent can prove his salt to you, is to prove his salt to you......and I guess that probably means placing you, looking after you, delivering for you - it's the only language interims understand.

Unfortunately, a large proportion of the blame for poor agencies, is poor candidates. As much as sometimes agents scan over good skill sets, I sometimes think that interims literally read a job title, and apply without even looking at the job spec. It should be fairly easy to work out whether you are the "silver bullet" candidate for a role before you apply. If you're a contractor, and you're not the silver bullet, someone will be. If you have less than 80% of the skills that are discussed in the job ad, then why would you even bother applying? You're just promoting your ignorance.

To my mind, Interims/Contractors should be charged a huge fee for every application they make if they can't justify exactly why they have sent their application to you. This is not the permanent market for gods sake - Clients won't wait for you to learn the ropes before delivering.

Imagine it like a flat pack furniture exercise - you buy two chests of drawers - the first one you break screws, lose bits, get royally p'ed off with the instructions, shout at the wife, kill the cat and it takes you hours. The second one, goes together in 20 minutes, looks fantastic, and serves for years to come. On the interim market, THAT is what we're looking for - the person that has already built their bedroom furniture, and knows exactly what to do to get a positive result. Ultimately, our reputation DEPENDS on what you do on site - why would we trust someone that hasn't delivered it before??

In terms of the overall question though (before I went into rant mode) - it's impossible to prove your salt with so much carp around - which is why I build relationships with interims, and clients, in equal measure -I need someone I can trust to deliver, and that will take them when I can supply them - and when they're not in my network - I need to prove that they've done what I need them to.

Find yourself an intelligent, honest, and plugged in recruiter, and stick with them (trust me - they are out there) - build the relationship with them - it'll pay off in the end, I'm sure.

Good luck
TAV

So in other words you want the contractor to do your work for you?

[expat]

someone pls remind me again why we need agents?

Because the clients use them.

[expat]

We've had a few agents/recruiters join here and try to get off on the right foot by saying things like:
- "I agree there is a lot of unethical behaviour by agents, but we're different"
- "When we ask for references, it's only when the client demands it"
- "I built up a reputation through being honest"

Such people typically get a good thrashing from CUK based around a core argument "that's what they all say". I was wondering if there is any way an honest agent could demonstrate that, other than opening up their company books on CUK?

Do a contract with an agent, remember how he behaved, keep in touch with the good ones. As time goes by you will be less inclined to speak to others.

In principle it's the agent, not the agency, that behaves well or not. Of course the agncy may encourage or demand poor behaviour from their agents, but you'll get to know them too.

I have one agent who has moved on twice since he got me a contract. I keep in touch with him, not necessarily with his previous agency or agencies.

[Pogle]

So in other words you want the contractor to do your work for you?

Twas ever thus.....