How do I ask for **Open book?** (Urgent Help Requested)

[blacjac]

Complete flipwit

Sorry Shanti I think I have been a bit unfair.

Will you be my friend? I'd like to stay in touch and find out about all the contracts you get.

This way I will have someone to call about 2 weeks after you start.....

[shanti]

Why would you want to bail out in the middle of a contract anyway? You're hired to deliver something, not walk out becuase you got bored. The time to terminate is at renewal.

Think like a professional for once.

Yes, of course. Professional to the Clientco - that is an absolute necessity - or your fooked.

Point is, your not contracted to the Clientco - your contracted to the agency - their level of professionism is very variable.

I guess the right answer is - to it sign up with agency and then just get in with the Clientco and into their good books. I am sure you can have a quiet word with Clientco, if you want to leave, they will tell the agency to terminate your contract - so you can leave without breech. Best way.

[EddieNambulous]

Yep. I wouldn't work with the OP. When I worked at RBS, an indian guy joined the team. He wasn't happy with the rate, so he decided to accept the role, and take it up with HR. He managed to upset HR and was asked to leave. The OP of this post, reminds me of him.....

Well, to be fair to shanti, he has endured a considerable amount of abuse from alot of people in this thread, and he's pretty much ignored it and doggedly stayed on topic.

I don't what the rights and wrongs of this discussion are, but you've got to admire his tenacity.

[pmeswani]

Well, to be fair to shanti, he has endured a considerable amount of abuse from alot of people in this thread, and he's pretty much ignored it and doggedly stayed on topic.

I don't what the rights and wrongs of this discussion are, but you've got to admire his tenacity.

To be honest with you, if some research was applied by the OP, he / she wouldn't be getting this amount of abuse from a lot of people on this forum. I know we are all niaive at one point, but the OP is taking the p*ss. I know I'm not the sharpest tool in the box, but even I wouldn't be taking the p*ss to this extreme.

[malvolio]

Yes, of course. Professional to the Clientco - that is an absolute necessity - or your fooked.

Point is, your not contracted to the Clientco - your contracted to the agency - their level of professionism is very variable.

I guess the right answer is - to it sign up with agency and then just get in with the Clientco and into their good books. I am sure you can have a quiet word with Clientco, if you want to leave, they will tell the agency to terminate your contract - so you can leave without breech. Best way.

The right answer is not to leave before the end of the contract. Don't care which contract you signed, it's the client that gets the grief. Sorry...

[TykeMerc]

As I asserted earlier in the thread he's either a troll or a total moron and an exceptionally naive one at that, take your pick.

He's also incapable of understanding that the word your is not an acceptable substitute for you're as they have totally different meanings.

He's a prize cretin and part of the reason that real contractors have to fight against the bad reputation contractors have at many Clients.

[RichardCranium]

I think you are doing really well sticking with this. You are right in your principles and right to stick to them.

Point is, your not contracted to the Clientco - your contracted to the agency - their level of professionism is very variable.

I guess the right answer is - to it sign up with agency and then just get in with the Clientco and into their good books. I am sure you can have a quiet word with Clientco, if you want to leave, they will tell the agency to terminate your contract - so you can leave without breech. Best way.

This does not fulfil all your requirements. You also wanted to be able to renegotiate terms during the contract. And relying on the client terminating your contract will not look good if you ever want to work for that client or through that agency again.

As you say, it is about negotiation. Just write down the things you want from the agency and tell them you want them put in the contract.

Oh yes, and your original query. It is called 'open book'. I check with some agencies today as I was talking to them; one of them used the term 'open book' and I tried it on another. They seem to know the term OK.

This link will point you at some agencies that do it.

I suggest you call a couple and ask if they will represent you to ClientCo. Don't forget to tell them your terms too.

Open Book Pricing

Square One adopts a totally open policy to margins with both its clients and its candidates. We feel this to be a major contributor to the trust and long-lasting relationships we develop with our partners: in short we understand their value, and they recognise the contribution we make to their business.

[shanti]

I think you are doing really well sticking with this. You are right in your principles and right to stick to them.
This does not fulfil all your requirements. You also wanted to be able to renegotiate terms during the contract. And relying on the client terminating your contract will not look good if you ever want to work for that client or through that agency again.

As you say, it is about negotiation. Just write down the things you want from the agency and tell them you want them put in the contract.

Oh yes, and your original query. It is called 'open book'. I check with some agencies today as I was talking to them; one of them used the term 'open book' and I tried it on another. They seem to know the term OK.

This link will point you at some agencies that do it.

I suggest you call a couple and ask if they will represent you to ClientCo. Don't forget to tell them your terms too.

Thanks. Great reply. I try to ignore some of the argumentative bait responses, as the purpose of these posts are to benefit others as well as myself.

Not easy to go through another agent once represented already with one. Usually something in the Agency-to-Clientco contract to stop introduced candidates going back through other routes.

Don't want to renegotiate terms mid-way - would thus prefer 3 months and stick to it. Just don't know what to push for in upfront negotiations until I get visibility to the ceiling (i.e. Agency-to-Clientco terms and charge out rates).

I thought the term was called 'Open Book' or something like that. Nice to see companies taking this sort of approach, pity more of them are not in the IT temp market...

"...we believe that maintaining our integrity is important in retaining the confidence and respect of our clients. To this end we have an 'openbook' policy on charging rates, and will therefore be happy to discuss how our charges are made-up"

The contract is however riddled with plenty of other anomalies... a term which states that the contractor cannot renegotiate the rates for a year on accepting the contract ...what??? I think at renewal, we can stamp on that one in renegotiation and get it removed in a new contract.

The agents really do try it on in this market. I guess you got to know what is enforceable, what can be ignored, when the best approach is to keep your head down as no one will find out, and what is worth sticking to your guns on.

[RichardCranium]

The contract is however riddled with plenty of other anomalies... a term which states that the contractor cannot renegotiate the rates for a year on accepting the contract ...what??? I think at renewal, we can stamp on that one in renegotiation and get it removed in a new contract.

In English Law you cannot put a condition in a contract which survives the end of the contract. It is meaningless and silly. So they cannot say "no increases for 12 months" in a 6 month contract. You can just cross that rubbish out. It is probably there so the agent can negotiate a 3 month increase for you (quite common - a reward for commitment) and then keep it for themselves.

The agents really do try it on in this market. I guess you got to know what is enforceable, what can be ignored, when the best approach is to keep your head down as no one will find out, and what is worth sticking to your guns on.

Absolutely. But the agents know very little themselves; if they knew contract law they would be lawyers! You an usually pull the wool over their eyes by being strong.

Go for it.

[shanti]

In English Law you cannot put a condition in a contract which survives the end of the contract. It is meaningless and silly. So they cannot say "no increases for 12 months" in a 6 month contract. You can just cross that rubbish out. It is probably there so the agent can negotiate a 3 month increase for you (quite common - a reward for commitment) and then keep it for themselves.

Absolutely. But the agents know very little themselves; if they knew contract law they would be lawyers! You an usually pull the wool over their eyes by being strong.

Go for it.

Very insightful. Well the strategy I'm going to take is:

1. Make it a short one, to begin with - 3 months
2. Don't argue about too much stuff - get in with Clientco
3. Ensure not being ripped off - Open Books
4. Renegotiate at renewal and get the restrictive convents and other stuff out

Wonder if there is anywhere to go on the web - which can give you an overview of UK contract Law in a nutshell - such as your post (didn't know about the expiry of terms at the contract end). An understanding of the basic principles which helps differentiate the agency fluff that is in the contract to just test you.

Maybe you can provide some quick thoughts on other basic terms:

* Restrictive convents - such as terms which prevent contractors working with the same client or associate companies for a 1 year/6months (other than through them)? - or terms on the Clientco contract which prevent the hiring of temp staff unless payments are made. Enforceable?

* Terms which state that the agency can terminate their contract with you - if Clientco dumps them - suppose this is reasonable?

* Terms which state that contractor is in Breech if he/she tells anyone their contract rate

.. or any other classics or agency contract gems - which are just not worth the paper they are printed on.