Blatant advert for role due for an Indian National

[malvolio]

Because its only an issue for a bunch of contractors- eveyone else is happy paying less for IT resource via ICT's.

PZZ

Erm....

That "bunch" only brings in around £2.7bn a year in GDP.

Those "cheap" ICTs are proving more expensive, since they use more people to do less work that needs more rework. Their business model is not prediated on saving UK PLC real money, merely pretending they do.

Those "cheap" ICTs are no paying tax in the UK, nor contributing to our economy. What they are doing is displacing the local workforce for a marginal saving and a major drop in quality. The impact on local economies is significant.

So what was your point again?

[Alf W]

Yep, here's a whole website for that very purpose.

www.ictabuse.org.uk

All contributions welcome. Let's get this stopped

They are watching you, watching them.

[pzz76077]

Erm....

That "bunch" only brings in around £2.7bn a year in GDP.

Those "cheap" ICTs are proving more expensive, since they use more people to do less work that needs more rework. Their business model is not prediated on saving UK PLC real money, merely pretending they do.

Those "cheap" ICTs are no paying tax in the UK, nor contributing to our economy. What they are doing is displacing the local workforce for a marginal saving and a major drop in quality. The impact on local economies is significant.

So what was your point again?

you will have a tough time convincing the average business manager that cheaper is not better in the current economic climate hence the reason why so many ICT's are fulfilling the roles that contractors used to do.

PZZ

[NotAllThere]

you will have a tough time convincing the average business manager that cheaper is not better...

Indeed. To quote one moron I used to work for "Why have you recruited these guys on £600 a day when I've just been called by an agency who can get me the programmers for just £400 a day". To which my response was - "That's because the programmers the agency are offering don't exist or are no ******* good".

[pzz76077]

Indeed. To quote one moron I used to work for "Why have you recruited these guys on £600 a day when I've just been called by an agency who can get me the programmers for just £400 a day". To which my response was - "That's because the programmers the agency are offering don't exist or are no ******* good".

Would agree, but is the primary reason why so many contractors are out of work ATM- ICT's and shipping work over to India has taken 10 years to become accepted but is now seen as a viable alternative to independent contractors. Most of these roles will never come back.....

PZZ

[TinTrump]

Thought I'd check vacancies in the UK being displayed outside the EU. Has this position, on 2 Indian job boards, been previously advertised in the UK I wonder? Its not on Silverlink's own site.

http://jobsearch.naukri.com/mynaukri/mn_newminnernew.php?f=090609001456&xp=8&xz=8_0_&xo =&id=&xid=124612880396436700&qc=8910&qs=r&qt=all&e nableRoleMapping=y&mode=7

http://jobs.monsterindia.com/details/7183377.html?sig=js-1-5f0a12d4ba9c24f3529852fde9f8be02-1

Can't see an indication of salary. Part of the remit is to provide consultancy but not sure whether it's a perm post or not. Not my technical area (finance related from what I can gather) but is it being advertised outside the EU because of lower wages? Shock horror.

Not currently in a position to investigate this further.

[malvolio]

Would agree, but is the primary reason why so many contractors are out of work ATM- ICT's and shipping work over to India has taken 10 years to become accepted but is now seen as a viable alternative to independent contractors. Most of these roles will never come back.....

PZZ

The point is, my underinformed friend, ICTs are meant only to be used to bring in specific expertise related to the task in hand from elsewhere in the same company. If you can persuade me that C++ and SQLServer is a niche skill, then I'll stick to gardening.

Also, staff are supposed to be paid the current local market rate for the role, the role is supposed to be advertised for two weeks locally, and even if you pass the ICT requirement there is no assurance that you will be able to get a Visa. What's actually happening is the onshored staff are being given a living allowance (usually around £180 a day), are paid a salary back home that is good there but way under what the UK one is, and their employers are lying through their teeth about it. Nor, incidentally, do they pay UK taxes or contribute anytihng to the local economy.

Finally, people are only now using ICTs becuase the Tier2 visas they used to use have been closed off. And when the Borders Agency find out about these abuses with documetnary evidence, the ICTs will be immediately revoked and look - no more development staff.

Personally I am not impressed by the "everyone's doing it" answer. It is marginally legal, it is a right royal piss take and it is serious abuse of clearly stated rules. You keep to your little world and I'll help fight this battle over here in the real one.

[pzz76077]

Thought I'd check vacancies in the UK being displayed outside the EU. Has this position, on 2 Indian job boards, been previously advertised in the UK I wonder? Its not on Silverlink's own site.

http://jobsearch.naukri.com/mynaukri/mn_newminnernew.php?f=090609001456&xp=8&xz=8_0_&xo =&id=&xid=124612880396436700&qc=8910&qs=r&qt=all&e nableRoleMapping=y&mode=7

http://jobs.monsterindia.com/details/7183377.html?sig=js-1-5f0a12d4ba9c24f3529852fde9f8be02-1

Can't see an indication of salary. Part of the remit is to provide consultancy but not sure whether it's a perm post or not. Not my technical area (finance related from what I can gather) but is it being advertised outside the EU because of lower wages? Shock horror.

Not currently in a position to investigate this further.

Yep, familiar story- advertise the roles nationally at a bulltulip rate, no one applies, you can prove it. You have the green light to legally bring in an ICT or similar for less a day than you would want an hour a few years ago.



PZZ

[pzz76077]

The point is, my underinformed friend, ICTs are meant only to be used to bring in specific expertise related to the task in hand from elsewhere in the same company. If you can persuade me that C++ and SQLServer is a niche skill, then I'll stick to gardening.

Also, staff are supposed to be paid the current local market rate for the role, the role is supposed to be advertised for two weeks locally, and even if you pass the ICT requirement there is no assurance that you will be able to get a Visa. What's actually happening is the onshored staff are being given a living allowance (usually around £180 a day), are paid a salary back home that is good there but way under what the UK one is, and their employers are lying through their teeth about it. Nor, incidentally, do they pay UK taxes or contribute anytihng to the local economy.

Finally, people are only now using ICTs becuase the Tier2 visas they used to use have been closed off. And when the Borders Agency find out about these abuses with documetnary evidence, the ICTs will be immediately revoked and look - no more development staff.

Personally I am not impressed by the "everyone's doing it" answer. It is marginally legal, it is a right royal piss take and it is serious abuse of clearly stated rules. You keep to your little world and I'll help fight this battle over here in the real one.

Cant agree with this -UK companies are applying sound business sense by using ICT's in any way legal. 'Playing the system' is no different to why contractors can pay less tax than a permie and the reason why most contractors got to be contractors in the first place. Practices also 'marginally legal' in the eyes of many.

The fact that ICT's are not paying UK tax is another reason why the UK gov should do something to at least stem the flow, but wont because of their non protectionist policy (that is the same as the other parties so wont change anytime soon).

Im constantly surprised by the number of contractors that harp on about ICT's and outsourcing cutting them out of the IT market like its something that started last month- this practice has been developing pace for the last 10 years and the writing has been on the wall for contractors for many years now. Those that have not kept pace with developments in their own back yard you can call 'uninformed'.

If its not ICT's and outsourcing then it will be some other mechanism to achieve the same objectives. Just look at UK manufacturing if you dont believe me- when was the last time you bought a domestic appliance from a UK company??

PZZ

[minestrone]

I would not listen to PZZ, he seems to be here on the wind up, trying to argue that it is OK for agents to go fishing last month. I very much doubt he is who he says he is.