bitten twice by Nuisance permie reference...advice please

[Darren_Test]

Guys,

I was bitten twice now so thought to seek advice from this forum. I have been working as QA manager for different clients in a niche industry where contractors are revolving around 5-6 main clients.

I worked for Client-1 (second term) 2 years back. Though I did a good job my exit wasn't as planned. My Manager had gone for holidays without arranging my extension & he thought my contract end date was later than the actual one. A day before my contract end date I came to know that the contract was not renewed. I was a bit pissed off about it, so rather than suggesting ways to sort out that mess I asked my manager whom I have to handover my tasks. Also could not do a good hand over as that permie was on leave on my final day.Worst than that is I did not bother to inform about my departure to my team or PMs I was interacting, because I thought I have to come back & work there once my manager sort out my contract. During my contract I marginalised couple of senior Permies & I took central stage & one Permie was very unhappy with me as he aspired to take my role. My manager was OK for me to give his name as reference.

I moved on & last year I got a role with Client-2, got interview, offer & contract draft the same day. But one of the interviewers had worked for Client-1 previously & was a very good friend of that nuisance Permie. In short my contract offer was withdrawn due to “budget issue”. But I strongly believe that Permie is responsible. I applied again couple of times with that client & never got any response after this...!

Yesterday I got another good role at a different division of Client-1. I was asked to give reference from Client-1. I tried to avoid that nuisance Permie & my ex-manager as reference. Instead, there was one guy known to both myself & the recruitment manager whom I had met in a few meetings & may be remember me, also he might point to my nuisance Permie for detailed feedback. This time too though I was perfect fit for this role after giving reference that agent also no more interested & refuses to respond to my mail or call.

So in short I lost 2 roles in these difficult times just because of bad reference from nuisance Permie though I did a good job & never given his name as reference. What should I do to in this situation..?. I am not in contact with this permie or my ex manager & both did not accept my LinkedIn invitations last year.

I have 3 options I think..

1.Mail my Ex manager saying that I lost 2 roles just because of bad reference from his company though I did a good job..??

2.Mail my Ex Manager & ask him what I did wrong during my role at Client -1..?

3.Do nothing & hope next time Mr.Nuisance will spare me..!!

Please advise as I don’t want to loose any more opportunity due this.

[HeadOfTesting]

My thoughts...

I’ll chip in here because I’ve got plenty of relevant experience, both as a reference-giving test manager (both contract and perm) in incestuous sectors and as a contractor who has ruffled a few feathers on the way up and then felt it was a factor in problems later when I was down on my luck (although it was agents I clashed with rather than clients).

Here are my (perhaps excessively-honest) thoughts:

- It would be hard to imagine how you could have handled your exit more badly. From what you described you got every decision wrong but that’s history now.

- As a ‘QA Manager’ diplomacy is key to your role and must feature not only in your day-to-day work, but also how you conduct your contractual arrangements. You asserted that you ‘did a good job’ but memories are short and people often only remember their most recent dealings with you, regardless of the broader track record, however unfair that may seem. Looking at it through the eyes of the hiring manager and the PM that you failed to keep informed, they were probably left with the impression that you did a rubbish job because you didn’t work to manage your client interaction in a way that helped them to manage your exit (whether that exit was accidental or intended) in the smoothest way possible, which is all part of ‘the job’. The PM in particular probably felt badly let down.

- Your manager probably agreed to be a referee so he had the opportunity to warn other prospective clients about what he might reasonably have regarded as a major weakness in your client service ethos.

- There are so many reasons why perfect-fitting candidates don’t get roles. You have inferred – logically – that the failure to secure those subsequent opportunities was attributable to the unfavourable exit. The problem is that explanations like “budget issues” are ultimately plausible, regardless of how believable they are and as a result you have no definitive proof (and probably no means to secure such proof) that there is a causal link between the initial upset and the subsequent events regardless of how strongly you believe it to be the case. With that in mind, you are not in a position to assert that link and any options that involve asserting that link are therefore not open to you.

Your suggested Options

Your option 1 is not open to you; you don’t have the means to assert that the episodes are linked and he may also not agree that you did a good job courtesy of your failure to help the client manage your exit. I think there’s a lot of potential for you to make things worse with this one.

Your option 2 is a possibility but can you really not see why the client would be upset? If not let me know and I’ll explain it to you. Also you would be stirring up old memories which is bad because there’s a lot of scope for these things to get forgotten over time.

Your option 3 is better. If maintaining a dignified silence doesn’t sit too well with you, a better option would be to contact them and acknowledge the screw-up in the hope that a line can be drawn under it. I personally wouldn’t do that because I would rather just leave it but you know the personalities involved so it’s a judgement for you.

My advice

- Keep applying to roles with clients 1 and 2 on the basis that all this never happened. At some point it will either forgiven and/or forgotten, or the hiring manager will be sufficiently unconnected to the problematic individuals for it to be irrelevant.

- Acknowledge (to yourself) how badly you handled the exit and learn from it. As I said let me know if, as your first option suggests, you really don’t know what you did wrong.

- Always remember that being diplomatic is not mutually exclusive with applying rigorous test/qa scrutiny and that your diplomacy skills must be applied to your contractual dealings just as much as to your everyday work.

Just my 2p’s worth.

Good luck and I hope this situation doesn’t niggle in your mind too much going forward.

HeadOfTesting

[SuperZ]

Can`t you use HR instead ,or the agency you worked for?

I didn`t think it was acceptable to give bad references these days? HR at the company probably would abide by that rule. If the managers gave bad references without consulting HR they could be in the sh** themselves. Good references fine, but I think bad references should be done by HR or by consultation with them.

Did you find out what was bad about the references given? If you did, you could complain via HR at the Company if you disagree and feel you have been treated unfairly.

I wouldn`t be surprised if a high % of contractors who have worked for many clients over 10 years or so have at least one bad experience but there are ways to work around potentially damaging references.

[Darren_Test]

Can`t you use HR instead ,or the agency you worked for?.

I never was in touch with HR, even when I was a contractor there. Agency was happy with me. But in both cases I mentioned above i did not give my nemesis's name, but some how he was getting involved. One case he was good friend of my interviewer & other case because all others might be busy with their work..!!

I didn`t think it was acceptable to give bad references these days? HR at the company probably would abide by that rule. If the managers gave bad references without consulting HR they could be in the sh** themselves. Good references fine, but I think bad references should be done by HR or by consultation with them. .

That's a good point. But will this rule be applicable for contractors as well..?

Did you find out what was bad about the references given? If you did, you could complain via HR at the Company if you disagree and feel you have been treated unfairly.

OK...I am trying to get exact information from agency. But my this time an outsourcer working for the client only got reference from my nemesis.

I wouldn`t be surprised if a high % of contractors who have worked for many clients over 10 years or so have at least one bad experience but there are ways to work around potentially damaging references.

In my case I know my nemesis will create trouble so I never given his name as reference. But still some how he is getting involved...!! So can not avoid him any more..

[BrilloPad]

Send the boys round to sort out the person who gave bad reference.

[mrdonuts]

give their details for written reference only, inform the company that you will sue there ass for defamation if you dont like the reference they provide and ask for a copy of the reference they provided previously, if its tulip sue

remember SUE is your friend

[Ivor Bigun]

My manager was OK for me to give his name as reference.

You sound a bit like a murderer saying
"Mr nice policeman, I've confessed to the murder, so can we forget all about it - can I go now?"


Darren, in the end, I think you're missed something

Maybe you should use someone else as a reference?

[Darren_Test]

- It would be hard to imagine how you could have handled your exit more badly. From what you described you got every decision wrong but that’s history now.

Well. I am very clear on my mistake now. I should have given my manager a chance to sort things out rather than rushing to handover. I let him down in a big way & acted very irresponsibly. Also not even telling my team about exit or even mailing them, it was my stupidest decisions. Especially because manager I worked with was the best one I ever worked. But I did not realised my mistake at the time of my exit as I was driven by emotions & arrogance at that time

- As a ‘QA Manager’ diplomacy is key to your role and must feature not only in your day-to-day work, but also how you conduct your contractual arrangements. You asserted that you ‘did a good job’ but memories are short and people often only remember their most recent dealings with you, regardless of the broader track record, however unfair that may seem. Looking at it through the eyes of the hiring manager and the PM that you failed to keep informed, they were probably left with the impression that you did a rubbish job because you didn’t work to manage your client interaction in a way that helped them to manage your exit (whether that exit was accidental or intended) in the smoothest way possible, which is all part of ‘the job’. The PM in particular probably felt badly let down.

I realised it & repent my mistake ..

- Your manager probably agreed to be a referee so he had the opportunity to warn other prospective clients about what he might reasonably have regarded as a major weakness in your client service ethos.

I never heard any thing of that sort about him. On another occasion I know one agent send a reference form to him. He acknowledged that mail but never send any thing back still I got that job. If he really want to damage my carrier he could have send bad reference back.

- There are so many reasons why perfect-fitting candidates don’t get roles. You have inferred – logically – that the failure to secure those subsequent opportunities was attributable to the unfavourable exit. The problem is that explanations like “budget issues” are ultimately plausible, regardless of how believable they are and as a result you have no definitive proof (and probably no means to secure such proof) that there is a causal link between the initial upset and the subsequent events regardless of how strongly you believe it to be the case. With that in mind, you are not in a position to assert that link and any options that involve asserting that link are therefore not open to you..

yes..That is correct..

Your suggested Options

Your option 1 is not open to you; you don’t have the means to assert that the episodes are linked and he may also not agree that you did a good job courtesy of your failure to help the client manage your exit. I think there’s a lot of potential for you to make things worse with this one...

Ok..This time I am putting pressure on agent to find the real reason.

Your option 2 is a possibility but can you really not see why the client would be upset? If not let me know and I’ll explain it to you. Also you would be stirring up old memories which is bad because there’s a lot of scope for these things to get forgotten over time. ...

But 2 years over after my exit, is it not right time for them to see my potential than my mistake..?

Your option 3 is better. If maintaining a dignified silence doesn’t sit too well with you, a better option would be to contact them and acknowledge the screw-up in the hope that a line can be drawn under it. I personally wouldn’t do that because I would rather just leave it but you know the personalities involved so it’s a judgement for you....

Just to hope next time he willnot deal with this...

My advice

- Keep applying to roles with clients 1 and 2 on the basis that all this never happened. At some point it will either forgiven and/or forgotten, or the hiring manager will be sufficiently unconnected to the problematic individuals for it to be irrelevant.....

I am doing that now..But it was a big disappointment to loose a chance like that for the second time. I could have been working from Monday..!!

- Acknowledge (to yourself) how badly you handled the exit and learn from it. As I said let me know if, as your first option suggests, you really don’t know what you did wrong......

I am 100% clear on my mistake now & will not repeat that again.

- Always remember that being diplomatic is not mutually exclusive with applying rigorous test/qa scrutiny and that your diplomacy skills must be applied to your contractual dealings just as much as to your everyday work.......

Yes..
[I]

-
Just my 2p’s worth.

Good luck and I hope this situation doesn’t niggle in your mind too much going forward.

HeadOfTesting

thanks very much..

[Darren_Test]

give their details for written reference only, inform the company that you will sue there ass for defamation if you dont like the reference they provide and ask for a copy of the reference they provided previously, if its tulip sue

remember SUE is your friend

There is no proof ..

[Darren_Test]

You sound a bit like a murderer saying
"Mr nice policeman, I've confessed to the murder, so can we forget all about it - can I go now?"


Darren, in the end, I think you're missed something

Maybe you should use someone else as a reference?

As I mentioned above in both cases I did not give my nemesis' name as reference..One case interviewer was his good friend & other case he might be the only free guy in that division now..I asked for refernce from My manager at the time of my exit only..