Reply to: bitten twice by Nuisance permie reference...advice please

[Ivor Bigun]

...and never push your permie colleagues to do work as well..??

Absolutely - You get someone else to do it

[HeadOfTesting]

by every incident of this sort I am loosing a client as well as an agency...!

Whilst acknowledging your comments about working in a niche and there being a few key clients, in light of the utterly horrific conditions in the testing market I would be inclined to prioritise the agency relationships over those with these troublesome clients. With that in mind if any agency approaches you about a role at one of the said clients I would suggest that you cite a neutral reason for not pursuing it without looking to appear too fussy given the market conditions. Easier said than done, I know, but that would be my approach.

[Darren_Test]

Thanks

Thanks guys..
good to get some valuable feedback from experience guys in this forum.
Thanks.

[Darren_Test]

Can't believe I'm reading all this stuff about contractors needing refs. I'll never give references, and never needed to. My interview bulltulip is enough. After all, contractors are easy to bin if they're crap.

Only permies need refs (and those are the meaningless HR type with dates only). Must be a sign of the desperate times.

I am not sure you are active in the market now..The role I lost last week, I never had any interview. Since I worked twice for the same end client & many times for their competitors, recruitment team was happy to take me on board just based on the reference from the client. Also it was an urgent role. For my last role as well I never had any interview even over phone, they selected me just based on my CV as I worked for that client too once in the past.

[Darren_Test]

When I had some mystery figure in the previous place who was badmouthing me, the problem wasn't that I couldn't get good references, I had those. The problem was that anyone who asked this guy about me would get a bad impression. I couldn't find out who it was so I couldn't fix it, and I couldn't leave him off my references because he wasn't on the list anyway.

mine too similar sitn..But I am more or less clear who is troubling me. Biggest issue is by every incident of this sort I am loosing a client as well as an agency...!

[Darren_Test]

Headoftesting was spot on with his reply, and as much as it hurts to read it, a `still tongue keeps a wise head`. I wouldnt say a thing, I wouldnt ring up ex managers, as the last memory will now be of a bleating guy complaining about his reference.

I am not planning to remind them my mistake

Perhaps its time to look at other clients, give this one a break, let the dust settle so to speak.

Yes..but 2 years over still its hurting me..!!

I do feel sorry for you. Reference are easy, if truthful. Surely you must have friends that are high up in companies, that can give you references ?? This is what I do now if I need additional help.I hope it all works out for you.
SBK

Yes..I do have friends in same company. but both cases I mentioned above my nemesis came in to the picture with out my knowledge. Though my nemesis is in a junior role & useless, he is one of the longest serving guy in that division. also he is kind of guy who will have tea/coffee with 10 sets of people every morning & evening...Very uselss but popular jolly guy...

[Darren_Test]

"Depersonalisation" meets "Jealousy" meets "Tall Poppy Syndrome".
- Never outshine your boss and only do what you're asked to do...
......

...and never push your permie colleagues to do work as well..??

[Turion]

Just provide your agents as a reference, after all it was the agency that you had a contract with. Steer clear of HR and so called "managers".

Jobs a goodun

WHS. Definitely avoid all HR and permies and most contractors. Unless you know them well, and get on very well, you can never be sure they will not stick the knife in if they get the chance.

The agency reference is a good idea as they can verify you worked on a gig. If a paranoid client really wants more info on a contractor let them hire a private detective.

[BrilloPad]

Just provide your agents as a reference, after all it was the agency that you had a contract with. Steer clear of HR and so called "managers".

Jobs a goodun

WHS

I get a written reference from the agency when I finish. Saves alot of time. And once I asked for a reference 2 years later : they asked for £120 for the privelidge!

[Turion]

So if you were offered a gig in the current climate and they insisted on references, and then withdrew the offer when you refused to give them, you'd be quite happy?

It's hypothetical as it's never happened. I'd certainly never give them to the agent (who are the only ones that ask). If it was life and death, I'd give name of contractor mate who would definitely say good things.

In any case, only a fool would ever give the name of someone, or a company that would possibly badmouth them. A bad reference is a whole lot worse than no reference.

[KentPhilip]

Can't believe I'm reading all this stuff about contractors needing refs. I'll never give references, and never needed to. My interview bulltulip is enough. After all, contractors are easy to bin if they're crap.

Only permies need refs (and those are the meaningless HR type with dates only). Must be a sign of the desperate times.

So if you were offered a gig in the current climate and they insisted on references, and then withdrew the offer when you refused to give them, you'd be quite happy?

[Ardesco]

Just provide your agents as a reference, after all it was the agency that you had a contract with. Steer clear of HR and so called "managers".

Jobs a goodun

[Turion]

Can't believe I'm reading all this stuff about contractors needing refs. I'll never give references, and never needed to. My interview bulltulip is enough. After all, contractors are easy to bin if they're crap.

Only permies need refs (and those are the meaningless HR type with dates only). Must be a sign of the desperate times.

[Ivor Bigun]

When I had some mystery figure in the previous place who was badmouthing me, the problem wasn't that I couldn't get good references, I had those. The problem was that anyone who asked this guy about me would get a bad impression. I couldn't find out who it was so I couldn't fix it, and I couldn't leave him off my references because he wasn't on the list anyway.

When I was a permie, I worked at one place that had a terrrible bullying ethos.
The IT Director was the most sadistic B*stard I have ever met (and I've met many since then). Some things he did were just evil; it shocked me at the time and it still makes me shiver - It was one of the best learning experiences I have ever had and made me realise that I should NEVER underestimate how twisted some people can be.

One guy had enough - He did a good job but was badly paid. The IT director didn't want him to leave (he was cheap, good and considered a core employee). IT director said he would give him a good ref and asked who he should send it to.
Well you can guess.... 3 weeks before he was to start, he was called by the agent to say the job was withdrawn. The poor guy had to ask for his job back.

How do I know what happened? his secretary who typed the letter, told everyone when she left under a cloud. By then the guy had left anyway.

[expat]

When I had some mystery figure in the previous place who was badmouthing me, the problem wasn't that I couldn't get good references, I had those. The problem was that anyone who asked this guy about me would get a bad impression. I couldn't find out who it was so I couldn't fix it, and I couldn't leave him off my references because he wasn't on the list anyway.