A practical test for a contractor?

[TheVoice]

Think of it like this:-

Would you ask the likes of Accenture or Getronics to get their representatives to sit a test at your site, if you had them in mind for a contract?

No?

Then don't ask me to, because I'm a business just likey they are

[Gonzo]

Think of it like this:-

Would you ask the likes of Accenture or Getronics to get their representatives to sit a test at your site, if you had them in mind for a contract?

No?

Then don't ask me to, because I'm a business just likey they are

That is comparing apples with breeze blocks.

I have no objection to short tests. There are a lot of blaggers out there - we must all have worked with some. Although they can be fired instantly, that means repeating the recruitment process which noone likes doing.

[fishtastic]

That is comparing apples with breeze blocks.

I have no objection to short tests. There are a lot of blaggers out there - we must all have worked with some. Although they can be fired instantly, that means repeating the recruitment process which noone likes doing.

Yep, I agree wholeheartedly with the above. I won't have time to start the the recruitment process again and have a handover period with the current admin if I recruit a lemon. Also, the amount of damage a blagger could do to the system before he was stopped may take days to fix.

As far as would you do the same with Accenture, well no. When you bring in a consultancy you expect a level of experience and competency (OK, you may not always get it), if they don't live up to a reasonable standard you won't use them again and they know it. Although the principals are the same with a contractor i.e. you won't use them again, the only indication of experience is their CV, which just a piece of paper (Yep, I know, a consultancy will happily send a 22 year old graduate with little clue, but in theory they know their boss will give them a kicking if they lose them future business).

If I want to gauge the competency level of a person then I can't think of a better way than what I've said.

I find it interesting that some peeps here have no problem with the idea whereas some seem to take it very personally indeed.

Fish

[ratewhore]

Yep, I agree wholeheartedly with the above. I won't have time to start the the recruitment process again and have a handover period with the current admin if I recruit a lemon. Also, the amount of damage a blagger could do to the system before he was stopped may take days to fix.

As far as would you do the same with Accenture, well no. When you bring in a consultancy you expect a level of experience and competency (OK, you may not always get it), if they don't live up to a reasonable standard you won't use them again and they know it. Although the principals are the same with a contractor i.e. you won't use them again, the only indication of experience is their CV, which just a piece of paper (Yep, I know, a consultancy will happily send a 22 year old graduate with little clue, but in theory they know their boss will give them a kicking if they lose them future business).

If I want to gauge the competency level of a person then I can't think of a better way than what I've said.

I find it interesting that some peeps here have no problem with the idea whereas some seem to take it very personally indeed.

Fish

Most tests I've seen are just dullard permie middle managers trying to prove they know more than the expensive contractor sat in front of them. Nothing more than a cock fight!!

Did you consider taking up the references of the contractor rather than getting them to sit some mickey mouse test? I can think of no better way of validating credentials than talking to their previous customer.

As it is a B2B relationship, in most cases you as the client will have the right to have any defective work put right at no cost. This forms part of the risk reward equation businesses (including contractor Limiteds) work to...

[chicane]

I find it interesting that some peeps here have no problem with the idea whereas some seem to take it very personally indeed.

It's equally interesting that none of the group who are dead against the idea of technical tests have managed to suggest any workable alternatives, despite their insistence that technical tests are not the way "real businesses" work.

As an old permie manager once said, "I need solutions, not problems"

[ratewhore]

It's equally interesting that none of the group who are dead against the idea of technical tests have managed to suggest any workable alternatives, despite their insistence that technical tests are not the way "real businesses" work.

Checking references, as I said...

[daviejones]

For some contractors, walking and chewing gum at the same time is an adequate test!!!

[fishtastic]

Most tests I've seen are just dullard permie middle managers trying to prove they know more than the expensive contractor sat in front of them. Nothing more than a cock fight!!

I guess I'm the dullard permie in this .

I personally value the experience of contractors in the team, often they have insights and experiences that you won't get from permies, who may not have had the variety of positions that a contractor has. There's nothing I hate more than interviewers trying to make out that they have divine knowledge about this or that, it's especially telling when they drift off from the job in hand to start quizzing you on a product that isn't on the job spec or your CV, but they believe they know lots about.

Fishtastic and the other testerholics on this thread sound like jealous permies anxious justify their miserable existance. They do this by setting 'tests' that 90% fail. Of course they themselves pass with ease (only cos they made the test in the first place ) Then armed with the results they can moan about the miserable state of contractor knowledge and the cheek them demanding 300pd when they know nothing.

Get a life you toads, and stop wasting valuable contractor time. Some of us have to take time off only to be confonted with a snide trying to trip us up. Choose an efficient way of picking candidates (try using the telephone) and then use the time saved to do productive work (if you know what that is)

Turion's quote is in a similar vein, jealous permies etc.. We currently have one contractor in the team and he's worth every penny. Jealous? No, he does a fantastic job and deserves the cash, if things look bad financially, he'll be kicked out the door pretty quick and that's the difference between my job and his, my rewards and his, my notice period and his.

Turion mentioned trying to use the telephone, I did, I did a telephone interview before dragging him up here. He did great, sat him the test and he couldn't do what a good sys admin would be capable of by the end of his/her first week .

As far as references go, how honest are you giving out references? Happy to tell me someone is awful and not to take them on? How long would it be before an angry contractor took legal advice. The only referees you would name are ones you think they will say nice things, that rather negates the usefulness of references, to an extent.

I'm wondering if the split of opinions is more between PM/BAs and Admin/Developers? Those who know a cowboy developer could quickly do damage and those who know cowboy PMs will increase the length of projects and do a crappy job which becomes more apparent after the project is 'complete' but doesn't immediately break anything.

Fish

[stingman123]

I'd never do it, I've walked out of a few interviews because of it as well.
The first time I had a "technical " test it was by a manager who had specific answers to his questions on a bit of paper.If the answer didn't match, you fail.

In one of my stints as a permie, my manager asked me to ask the contractors a theory question on a problem we were having and couldn't solve, my manager asked in the end and the answer the contractor gave saved us over £20K!

[NotAllThere]

Think of it like this:-

Would you ask the likes of Accenture or Getronics to get their representatives to sit a test at your site, if you had them in mind for a contract?

No?

Then don't ask me to, because I'm a business just likey they are

Yes. I would. And I have. That's how I chose which consultancy got the contract. I need a team, I have the candidate consultancies send me a couple of team leads, and I decide which consultancy gets the business by the quality of the people leading the team.

Then I get them to send me staff. In one instance I rejected 2/3 of those they sent me, and they had to resort to bringing in freelancers. Unfortunately, the higher up numpty managers in my org. wouldn't let me get freelances directly, though that is my preferred option.