I just need to get two references ...

[RichardCranium]

If a reference is a pre-requisite of CV submission

and it never is

and you wisely refused to provide one (even a simple or written one)

ftfy

then what do you expect?

An agent that is fishing for leads.

Immediate question is "what does this person have to hide?"

Immediate answer is "they do not have an actual post to fill."

Would you buy something from an ebay seller without a demonstration of thier delivery history? No. It's the same for us - we don't want to be shafted. In this climate, anyone who refuses to give some form of reference to an agent who has a genuine role, is an idiot.

Bulltulip. FUD. Lies. We all know it and so do you.

[swamp]

Would you buy something from an ebay seller without a demonstration of thier delivery history? No. It's the same for us - we don't want to be shafted. In this climate, anyone who refuses to give some form of reference to an agent who has a genuine role, is an idiot.

Bulltulip. FUD. Lies. We all know it and so do you.

And you know that we know that you know.

[SueEllen]

Would you buy something from an ebay seller without a demonstration of thier delivery history? No.

Actually yes I have and someone has off me.

Everyone has to start somewhere.................

[Lolas Cat]

If a reference is a pre-requisite of CV submission, and you refused to provide one (even a simple or written one) then what do you expect? Immediate question is "what does this person have to hide?"

Would you buy something from an ebay seller without a demonstration of thier delivery history? No. It's the same for us - we don't want to be shafted. In this climate, anyone who refuses to give some form of reference to an agent who has a genuine role, is an idiot.

The question is, did you qualify how real the role was before you decided that you couldn't provide any proof of anything that you've done, other than your word (which is worth JS in this industry)??

I doubt very much that any company would be interested in reference at that stage of the selection process.

[DodgyAgent]

I doubt very much that any company would be interested in reference at that stage of the selection process.

There is another factor at play here. If someone is in demand (and if they are any good they will be) why on earth make it more difficult for them to be put forward? Most will think it is unnecessary until a job is offered so why put them off?
If it is a question of confirming their technical skills then why not set them a short test? After all our agency friend is "so close" to his clients why does'nt his clients help him out here?
I still maintain that it is an utter waste of time asking for references when candidates don't even have an interview lined up.
If our agency friend is so damned professional why isnt he learning enough about the technology to be able to find out for himself if someone has the required skills.
As far as I am concerned if the CV is good and the contractor doesnt have any hygiene issues () and they meet the availability/rate/showing interest in the job criteria then that is good enough for me.

[Jog On]

I've never ever been asked for references for a genuine role. In the early days before I cottoned on what was going on I never ever heard back from an agent that called me about a role asking for 2 references.

Even if there were some genuine need for references being submitted with a CV I still won't do it as a general 'company policy'. Along with going pro rata or being an employed consultant if you want 2 references up front it's goodbye and

Next!

I'm sure I'm missing out on some really juicy roles, in fact all the roles that need references up front seem to be perfectly tailored to my CV

In fact I even had one pimp who changed the job spec mid conversation when I told him what it was I do and the role wasn't right for me. It went like this:

Pimp: Got a role doing XYZ
Me: I don't actually do XYZ, I do ABC
Pimp: Oh sorry i meant to say the role is actually doing ABC

I kid you not....

[The Agents View]

Actually yes I have and someone has off me.

Everyone has to start somewhere.................

This is ABSOLUTELY the crux of this. Everyone DOES have to start somewhere - but when you're making decisions worth 000's, would you not feel more comfortable with a demonstrable, and more to the point, PROVEN, track record?

I know DA thinks references are pointless, but I can honestly say that the candidates on whom I take them, have a far better success rate of getting to interview. The CV, and a brief, line management (not HR - I agree those are pointless) reference, is priceless in terms of securing that foot in the door.

DA must work at the admin level, as throughout my career, references have always been central to what I do, not from a cold sales perspective, but from the perspective of doing a proper sales job for the contractor.

There's no point pretending your CV is worth any more than the paper its written on, unless you can back it up with proof. The only way to really get that proof, is to verify it with those who have been in a situation similar to the hiring manager. Unless you think that the CV should be taken as gospel, at which point, I have some HORROR stories I can tell you.

[Jog On]

This is ABSOLUTELY the crux of this. Everyone DOES have to start somewhere - but when you're making decisions worth 000's, would you not feel more comfortable with a demonstrable, and more to the point, PROVEN, track record?

I know DA thinks references are pointless, but I can honestly say that the candidates on whom I take them, have a far better success rate of getting to interview. The CV, and a brief, line management (not HR - I agree those are pointless) reference, is priceless in terms of securing that foot in the door.

DA must work at the admin level, as throughout my career, references have always been central to what I do, not from a cold sales perspective, but from the perspective of doing a proper sales job for the contractor.

There's no point pretending your CV is worth any more than the paper its written on, unless you can back it up with proof. The only way to really get that proof, is to verify it with those who have been in a situation similar to the hiring manager. Unless you think that the CV should be taken as gospel, at which point, I have some HORROR stories I can tell you.

I still won't give you any references until an offer has been made. Maybe I'll miss out but because of the fishing practice used by recruitment agents that's just what myself and a lot of other seasoned contractors will also do.

Weeding out blaggers and people who lie on their CV is what interviews are for.

[DodgyAgent]

DA must work at the admin level, .

Brilliant put down, if only it was'nt accidental

Being in admin I have time to spend on here, for someone who is so professional and spends so much time on each contractor he forwards you do spend a lot of time on this site. Tell me how you do it and I can pass it up the line of command.. I am sure the post room would love to know.

[SuPaStA]

Came across a new one....
http://www.jobserve.co.uk/Support-An...028D18EF.jsjob

Support analyst - financial sector but more importantly they no financial sector experience needed.
Click to apply and what do they ask you for?.........

Work Telephone No. *

Which you have to enter to apply.Yes I know you can just put your LTD company tel number but found it funny they would require your work number instead of your personal contact number.