I just need to get two references ...

[Fred Bloggs]

Agencies for contractors dont just ask for refs just to get leads, any agency worth their salt wanting leads will use the likes of linked in due to the fact that the person who you give as a reference is probably your best mate in the office and wouldn't lie anyway or the ref will be some jumped up idiot in HR.

1 of the main reasons is that fast paced agencies need to qualify that the contractor isn't a mad man because the client needs them onsite within a matter of hours.

The consultant needs to be able to honestly say to the client that the engineer has been checked out thouroughly so as not to make themselves look stupid and lose business if the contactor is an idiot.

If the job requires a lengthy interview process etc, then some of the threads below are right, you would only need to give refs when an offer is given.

[smiff]

Agencies for contractors dont just ask for refs just to get leads, any agency worth their salt wanting leads will use the likes of linked in due to the fact that the person who you give as a reference is probably your best mate in the office and wouldn't lie anyway or the ref will be some jumped up idiot in HR.

1 of the main reasons is that fast paced agencies need to qualify that the contractor isn't a mad man because the client needs them onsite within a matter of hours.

The consultant needs to be able to honestly say to the client that the engineer has been checked out thouroughly so as not to make themselves look stupid and lose business if the contactor is an idiot.

If the job requires a lengthy interview process etc, then some of the threads below are right, you would only need to give refs when an offer is given.

I would have typed something more verbose, but LOL will do.

HTH.

[Another Dodgy Agent]

Agencies for contractors dont just ask for refs just to get leads, any agency worth their salt wanting leads will use the likes of linked in due to the fact that the person who you give as a reference is probably your best mate in the office and wouldn't lie anyway or the ref will be some jumped up idiot in HR.

1 of the main reasons is that fast paced agencies need to qualify that the contractor isn't a mad man because the client needs them onsite within a matter of hours.

The consultant needs to be able to honestly say to the client that the engineer has been checked out thouroughly so as not to make themselves look stupid and lose business if the contactor is an idiot.

If the job requires a lengthy interview process etc, then some of the threads below are right, you would only need to give refs when an offer is given.

Mate, I have been here so many times, they won't have it. TBH this is a contractor forum rather than an agency one, so we cannot expect much welcome, apart from DA who I am sceptical whether he is an agent or not, if he is I suspect he is a dinosaur but you will draw your own conclusions I am sure.

Personally I do not spend a lot of time on here anymore, makes my pish boil too much with some of the threads and I became fed up with "fire fighting" arguments back.

Things I learned. Sweeping generalisation possibly but the majority dive between inside and outside IR35 as it suits them, most on here will attempt to break a contract if something else better comes along. They are all convinced their agent is having them over on rate, despite HR PSL's stipulating margin. The advice for the avoidance of tax and NI on here is exceptional (but only as you would expect in the IT contracting community), whereas the average agent is paying out 40% plus NI - but the agents are evil!

The moment you try to explain that it is impossible to respond to everyone that applies to your job board ad because you are getting 200+ applications, well that is ridiculed as progoganda (despite the fact we are in a recession with many people out of work).

Anyone with business savvy on here, be it the contractors, agents and line managers would surely try to make contact either within the forum or via pm'ing to see if any scope existed for mutual business profitability, but no, you might as well be a traffic warden. Here I am as a highly experienced Rec Consultant with over 12 years experience with clients recruiting, some folk on here are "on the bench" and yet not one contact, FFS!

Rant over!

[Moscow Mule]

Things I learned. Sweeping generalisation possibly but the majority dive between inside and outside IR35 as it suits them,

As the contract dictates more likely - you do realise that it's decided for each contract, don't you?

most on here will attempt to break a contract if something else better comes along.

I think you'll find more that won't. That said, who is in business for any bo

They are all convinced their agent is having them over on rate, despite HR PSL's stipulating margin.

So if a client was paying £600 a day and you could get somebody in for £400 a day you would bump them to 95%?

The advice for the avoidance of tax and NI on here is exceptional (but only as you would expect in the IT contracting community), whereas the average agent is paying out 40% plus NI - but the agents are evil!

More lemons or are you bitter enough?

Examples? You'll find the majority of us actually running a business follow the rules to the letter - we have to or we'd get screwed in an investigation.

The moment you try to explain that it is impossible to respond to everyone that applies to your job board ad because you are getting 200+ applications, well that is ridiculed as progoganda (despite the fact we are in a recession with many people out of work).

Is it really so hard to put an auto reply on? I can supply some technical lessons for you if you like.

Anyone with business savvy on here, be it the contractors, agents and line managers would surely try to make contact either within the forum or via pm'ing to see if any scope existed for mutual business profitability, but no, you might as well be a traffic warden. Here I am as a highly experienced Rec Consultant with over 12 years experience with clients recruiting, some folk on here are "on the bench" and yet not one contact, FFS!

So, have you got any jobs to offer that aren't on the job boards already?
(Not for me of course, I'm busy finding my next contract through my own network as any good contractor should)

[stuart_75]

I applied for a position on Jobserve this evening, the position was in Prague. 10mins later the agent rings me (Glotel) telling me the position is really in Ireland (alarm bells ringing).

He then wants me to agree a rate before putting my cv forward (typical). He then says I must include 2 references with my cv for the client to accept them. I told him no way, he tries to convince me he wont call them. He then puts his "manager" on the line (sounds like his mate sat next to him). He tells me the cv's and references are submitted electronically (no tulip sherlock) and will be rejected without references. I again tell him, no offer, no reference. He hangs up!

[smiff]

I applied for a position on Jobserve this evening, the position was in Prague. 10mins later the agent rings me (Glotel) telling me the position is really in Ireland (alarm bells ringing).

He then wants me to agree a rate before putting my cv forward (typical). He then says I must include 2 references with my cv for the client to accept them. I told him no way, he tries to convince me he wont call them. He then puts his "manager" on the line (sounds like his mate sat next to me). He tells me the cv's and references are submitted electronically (no tulip sherlock) and will be rejected without references. I again tell him, no offer, no reference. He hangs up!

Damn!

Sounded such an amazing role too. Gutted for you.

[Another Dodgy Agent]

As the contract dictates more likely - you do realise that it's decided for each contract, don't you?

Yes I do realise that, however I do believe a contractor will go with the "I am inside" or "outside IR35 as I see fit", which is wrong in my book!

I think you'll find more that won't. That said, who is in business for any bo


So if a client was paying £600 a day and you could get somebody in for £400 a day you would bump them to 95%?

No I would charge our standard rate which would be £467.84 per day to the client based upon £400 per day to the contractor. How dare you determine my business figure, it is not for you to decide or criticise my business protocol. For what it is worth I have often dropped as low as 5% to facilitate a contractor.

More lemons or are you bitter enough? Examples? You'll find the majority of us actually running a business follow the rules to the letter - we have to or we'd get screwed in an investigation.

Firstly that's crap, you have IR35 insurance provided by QDOS and Accountax so I am sorry but you do not have to abide by the rules if you decide to use that facility. Secondly if you have run a proper business and pay yourself a salary and take any remaining earning's as dividends then what is wrong with that????

Is it really so hard to put an auto reply on? I can supply some technical lessons for you if you like.

We already have that facility and still get complaints...

So, have you got any jobs to offer that aren't on the job boards already?
(Not for me of course, I'm busy finding my next contract through my own network as any good contractor should)

Yes PM like many have already and I will see if I can help! Given your scathing attack on me above, I give a far more generous offer than I suspect you would give me, or are you going to use me as your Rec Consultant when you are in a recruiting position???

BTW I am on holiday for the next two weeks so apologies to those who have PM'd I will assist you as soon as I can.

Take Care

ADA

[DodgyAgent]

Mate, I have been here so many times, they won't have it. TBH this is a contractor forum rather than an agency one, so we cannot expect much welcome, apart from DA who I am sceptical whether he is an agent or not, if he is I suspect he is a dinosaur but you will draw your own conclusions I am sure.

Personally I do not spend a lot of time on here anymore, makes my pish boil too much with some of the threads and I became fed up with "fire fighting" arguments back.

Things I learned. Sweeping generalisation possibly but the majority dive between inside and outside IR35 as it suits them, most on here will attempt to break a contract if something else better comes along. They are all convinced their agent is having them over on rate, despite HR PSL's stipulating margin. The advice for the avoidance of tax and NI on here is exceptional (but only as you would expect in the IT contracting community), whereas the average agent is paying out 40% plus NI - but the agents are evil!

The moment you try to explain that it is impossible to respond to everyone that applies to your job board ad because you are getting 200+ applications, well that is ridiculed as progoganda (despite the fact we are in a recession with many people out of work).

Anyone with business savvy on here, be it the contractors, agents and line managers would surely try to make contact either within the forum or via pm'ing to see if any scope existed for mutual business profitability, but no, you might as well be a traffic warden. Here I am as a highly experienced Rec Consultant with over 12 years experience with clients recruiting, some folk on here are "on the bench" and yet not one contact, FFS!

Rant over!

A few points here:

I absolutely hate the word "Mate"

I think you have lost the intellectual argument (you didnt really have much chance on that one did you MATE ?)

12 years of bulls**t

You dont really understand how to influence. If you think coming on here and spouting bull**it is going to endear yourself to anyone then you really dont have a clue do you?

[ddilling]

What's the deal with overseas agents?
I had one in Zurich saying he needs two references before interview stage.

Part of the procedure for getting me a resident permit in Switerland was submitting two references. They were never called and it seems like a geniune legal requirement.

[Another Dodgy Agent]

A few points here:

I absolutely hate the word "Mate" ?

Tough "mate" it was not aimed at you in the first place, perhaps you do not like the word because you have no "mates"? ?

[/QUOTE]

I think you have lost the intellectual argument (you didnt really have much chance on that one did you MATE ?)

What intellectual argument you waste of space?

12 years of bulls**t

Based on what???? You really are a sad waste of space DA. I suspect you have no insight into recruitment but are in fact an IT contractor that was wronged many years ago and now bides time on here trying to right wrongs, you are definitely not an agent. At least the agents have the guts to admit they are on here you complete loser.

You dont really understand how to influence. If you think coming on here and spouting bull**it is going to endear yourself to anyone then you really dont have a clue do you?

Influence is done, 25 members contacted me via PM for help. Bit more than you have achieved (or even offered), I will do my best for them, more than you have achieved DA you complete selfish, useless waste of space. You stink, as does your advice and when it comes to it you can do nothing for nobody. Failure mate, that's you, sorry but that is you. Go away. Oh by the way, those who did contact me out of those 25, 18 said they thought you were a twat and advised me not to rise to your bait. There it is! In the words of one member, "why doesn't he (DA) feck off!"