Timesheet Not Signed - Options

**DimPrawn** · 7 July 2008, 09:37

First bit of advice is to arrange a meeting with key people in the clients organisation to discuss this issue.

don't email them, talk to them face to face.

Often, blanket requirements to act like a permie (ie. fill in the same timesheets) come down from drones in HR, and by reminding them you are not a permie, and that following this route is bad all round, soon puts an end to it.

Too many contractors don't communicate with the client and end up acting like stroppy children via email.

**Platypus** · 7 July 2008, 09:39

Originally posted by TheVoice View Post

Folks,

A situation here which I need some advice on.

I currently complete agency, "per day" timesheets for my gig, this has been enough for the last 3 months. Contractually, I am only obliged to provide these timesheets. The client has just begun to demand their own "per hour" timesheets also, which I have declined on the following grounds:-

A: IR35 Implications - these are not project based & are completed by their permenant staff. They imply employment by the client & not supply of services in a B2B arrangement.

B: The agency advise that these are not required as I complete theirs & that is all that is required to be paid

C: Legal advice that I should continue to operate the contract as I have in the past.

The client is now witholding signed agency timesheets until theirs are signed off, potentially putting them in breach as the timesheets are accurate & true, plus all that is contractually required for payment.

Legally, if I keep turning up & invoicing, where do I stand? Obviously to withold services pending signed timesheets would result in me being in breach, however continuing to turn up without being assured payment is also a nonsense situation.

My question is, if I turn up & continue to invoice as normal, if the client still refuses to sign off these timesheets, where do I stand re: payment. Given that the agency day based timesheets are true & accurate, surely the client cannot, under the terms of the contract, refuse to sign them?

Confused....but not quite .com yet...!

Using an agency isn't exactly a B2B arrangement either is it?

Why not just comply and get paid?

**b0redom** · 7 July 2008, 09:42

Are you sure they're a pointer to IR35? I'm required - as are all contractors - including permies employed by outside agencies to account for my time against various projects.

This would seem to be a way of tracking which resources are being used on which projects, not a pointer to who is and who isn't inside IR35?

IANAL etc....

**malvolio** · 7 July 2008, 10:02

Originally posted by b0redom View Post

Are you sure they're a pointer to IR35? I'm required - as are all contractors - including permies employed by outside agencies to account for my time against various projects.

This would seem to be a way of tracking which resources are being used on which projects, not a pointer to who is and who isn't inside IR35?

IANAL etc....

Project accounting is not an IR35 pointer, if everyone - permie or freelance - has to comply. Linking it to the agency payment, however, would be: the client needs re-education on both the tax issue and the contractual one.

Also, is the OP opted in? If so, the agency can't withold payment on the grounds of non-payment by their client - although they would no doubt argue they aren't doing that, they are simply not getting the required confirmation any work has been done.

Someone needs to talk to the client, sharpish!

**TykeMerc** · 7 July 2008, 10:08

When I'm running multiple projects I fully expect to have to break my time down on a client time sheet, the contractors all used a shared speadsheet on my last gig. We had contract PM's, BA's and tech architects on the timesheet.
As a PM it's vital to know who works on what for budget management.

IR35 wise none of us were concerned over this issue as in our combined opinion it didn't imply d&c by the client.

As DimPrawn said arrange a face to face meeting to express your concerns. Make sure that they know you're worried about the concealed employee issues which have a potential effect on you and them as an employer.

It's a matter of how you paint it and in my opinion not something you should get too wound up about.

**ratewhore** · 7 July 2008, 10:09

If you're meeting your contractual obligations then it's the agency's problem, not yours. But, check your contract for the fine print of what the agency needs (sometimes they add clauses about the clients requirements.).

If you're happy you meet those obligations then you have the right to invoice the agency as normal, claim penalties and interest in accordance with the legislation (http://www.payontime.co.uk) and, ultimately, walk off the project if your invoices are not being paid.

Having said all that, you have to weigh up how much of a ballache you want to make this. One last point - I would ensure you have written confirmation of whatever is agreed in a face-to-face...

**TheVoice** · 7 July 2008, 10:11

Originally posted by malvolio View Post

Project accounting is not an IR35 pointer

The end-client timesheets aren't project based. This is the problem. They are a generalised tracking of "staff working time" by their own admission.

Originally posted by malvolio View Post

Someone needs to talk to the client, sharpish!

Indeed - unfortunately the UK based client staff are "just following instructions" - like typical yes men!

Amazingly, an alternative manager at the client site finally signed off 2 weeks of agency timesheets...he's previously a contractor & understands the situation. Think I may well have found the solution...get a human being who knows what they're doing to sign the timesheet!!

& still the end-client head office are whinging...but then again, the agency agreement between agent & supplier says they have to pay on signed agency timesheets, so hey, thats another few grand safe.

**Sockpuppet** · 7 July 2008, 10:21

The time sheet will probably say "work done to satisfactory levels etc."

So they don't have to sign it even if they are true and accurate. They could just claim they don't like your work.

**Dow Jones** · 7 July 2008, 10:56

Client Timesheets

Most/all of us have to fill electronic timesheets for the clients' benefit. These are for internal use and for time/cost allocated to each project. Potentially they can be cross-referenced with your agency timesheets, but these need to be physically signed, so there is no confusion or fraud. Now, I've never had to fill manually 2 different timesheets (is this the case for the poster's complaint?). Sounds a bit backwards/old-fashioned way to me.

Timesheet Not Signed - Options