Opt out and referees?

[Ptarmigan]

Introduced to client by friend, went for interview, offered role. Client said that their policy is to put contractors through one of their preferred suppliers (fine by me as long as the rate agreed doesn't change, hasn't) and I would be contacted by one of the PS of my choice from their list.

Got contacted by pimp, asked for scan of passport, company details, 2 x referees and now signature on opt out forms.

No prob with first two but 2 x referees and opt out? I've already been offered the role so why should I need to provide any referees (client certainly hasn't asked me for them at any point)? As I had already met with Client prior to pimp asking me to sign Opt out forms, my assumption is that it is too late anyhow? Is there any advantage to Opting Out vs Opting In, given this situation?

All opinions/comments appreciated.

Thanks

[brianbetter]

Opt out - opt in

Most agencies have to get references as part of their quality agreements and this is something that agency governing bodies (such as the REC) plus ISO audits will check when they go to an agencies premises.

As for opt - out, opt - in, if you opt out, you are not bound by the most recent raft of laws for temporary workers whcih outline your basic rights, etc as a worker. By opting out, you will be accepting a contract between two comanies (the agency and you Ltd co, or appointed company). This may be better for tax purposes as the contract is between two companies and not a company and an individual, but it gives the agency free rein to try and impose all sorts of crappy clauses so if you opt out, read the contract carefully because they can pretty much put what they want in there (always refuse to sign handcuff clauses and anything that says that the client will not pay you until they have been paid by the client)

[Turion]

The agent wants leads, simple as that. Never give refs to agents - period. Give them direct to client if clients asks for them. BrianBetter is an agent, or very naive contractor

[brianbetter]

References

Yes, I am an agent, but we are bound by our governing bodies to get references as a quality procedure, to prove we are trying to prove the background and ability of our clients. Yes, we pick up freebies from our clients but they still do spot check on references. The end client doing reference checking is not wise, this is an indicator of being treated like a member of staff and that is nad juju IR35 wise. We do speak to the guys and of course we will try and generate leads but it is not agressive. (well not im our case, but we try to be professional because shoddy working is short termism)

[s2budd]

References

Quality procedure?

[drpaz]

Agree with Turion

Never give refs to agents. If they MUST check up on you, give them the contact details of your last agent. That's what I do if really pushed hard for it.

[DodgyAgent]

The agent wants leads, simple as that. Never give refs to agents - period. Give them direct to client if clients asks for them. BrianBetter is an agent, or very naive contractor

He is quite right (though whether anyone else is interested in "his/their" ISO standards is another matter). The clients require that references are followed up, and why on Earth should the client be expected to follow up references when they have agencies at their disposal to do the work I really dont know.

[VectraMan]

Yes, I am an agent, but we are bound by our governing bodies to get references as a quality procedure,

So this applies to all agents does it? So therefore it's impossible to get a contract role through an agent without first providing references?

[The Lone Gunman]

An opt out wuld be void at this stage.
You have to do it before you have been introduced to the client.
As the client introduced you to the agent it is moot.
Agent clearly doesnt understad regulatons. Explain it to them gently.
If they insist on refs then give em your client and the mate who introduced you.
You could always write a letter from your company asserting that your company has vetted quals and experience and offer to indemnifhy the agent against costs occuring if proven false.

[NotAllThere]

Yes, I am an agent, but we are bound by our governing bodies to get references as a quality procedure, to prove we are trying to prove the background and ability of our clients. Yes, we pick up freebies from our clients but they still do spot check on references. The end client doing reference checking is not wise, this is an indicator of being treated like a member of staff and that is nad juju IR35 wise. We do speak to the guys and of course we will try and generate leads but it is not agressive. (well not im our case, but we try to be professional because shoddy working is short termism)

First, your governing bodies are made up of directors of agencies, so the quality procedures being followed are being decided by agencies to impress the majority of clients who think that quality procedures provide anything in and of themselves other than bad quality.

Second, short termism is de rigeur for the majority of your industry.

Third, if you're going to take references then don't turn it into a fishing trip. I've had contractors ask me if I'll provide a reference to an agent, only to be called up by agent asking if I need a replacement. **** off is my normal response.

Fourth, as a hiring manager of contractors, I don't bother with references. Partly because they're utterly worthless (you can't say anything bad or good without risking being sued), but mostly because if a contractor turns out to be crap, I'll fire them. It's not like they're employees with rights, is it?