working hours in contracts

**KevinS** · 19 February 2008, 12:19

I've not had an issue about getting this changed before.. Name and shame!!

I'd walk if I was in your position - but before you do, maybe a chat to the client will help nudge the agency in the right direction??

**SandyDown** · 19 February 2008, 12:31

The reason the agency is not changing (the legal rep of the agency) is because they are saying even if we change this in my contract, this is actually what is stipulated in the agency/client contract.

Thanks, I am surprised about this too, this is only the second agency that has refused to make IR related changes (Xansa was one, this is the second) Although this one is supposed to be a high calibre one.

Can’t name and shame at the moment- may be when all the negotiation is finished.

**MrRobin** · 19 February 2008, 12:41

I've seen contracts before which state a professional working day, but then also say that a PWD means you must be there during the hours between 10 - 12 and 2 - 4... ??!

I am surprised that your working hour restriction is in the agency/client contract... why should the agency care? The client must be very strict on punctuality or something.. I would avoid.

**NotAllThere** · 19 February 2008, 12:50

Originally posted by SandyDown View Post

... working 9-5:30 and the conditions of working minimum 8 hours per day Mon-Friday....

How's that work then? Assuming a 30min lunch break, if you start work 8:59, you'll be in breach of contract...

The word "minimum" seems superfluous.

**PAH** · 19 February 2008, 13:18

Originally posted by MrRobin View Post

I am surprised that your working hour restriction is in the agency/client contract... why should the agency care? The client must be very strict on punctuality or something.. I would avoid.

I think it's more to do with billing the agency for hours that may be more than the ones agreed with the client, hence they put in these restrictions so they don't automatically have to pay you for them without clearing it with the client via the timesheets.

Is it a big IR35 no-no to have specific working hours on the contract? I've never bothered about it myself. The last few contracts of mine seem to have the hours as a guide, with a calculation of the what the project value would be over the length of the contract if all those hours are worked. Only seen this since IR35 so assumed it was to do with that.

**ratewhore** · 19 February 2008, 14:24

I had this a few contracts back. The contract initially stated 7.5 hours per day and I asked them to change it to a PWD. This they did and then added a sub-clause stating a PWD = 7.5 hrs.

Current contract is how I like it. No reference to hours at all and also includes the clause for upper contracts not invalidating IR35 provisions of my contract...

**Fred Bloggs** · 19 February 2008, 14:24

Avoid unless desperate. If desperate, take it till you find something else. Client dictating hours is a definite indicator of employment like "control".

**SandyDown** · 19 February 2008, 19:23

Ok legal dept back came to me, they said that my contract with them should reflect the contract with the client, the contract with the client does contain a clause of minimum 8 hours a day, 5 days a week !!

However, I am aware this agency has many contractors onsite of the client, so if this was their standard contract, it seems many contractors are not concerned about this working hours.

My accountants says I can always argue with the IR re the working hours clause, but it would be better if we remove it from the contract!!

**NotAllThere** · 19 February 2008, 19:30

My contract specifies a pwd of 8 hours. The client, in fact, doesn't care what hours I work, so long as I get the work done - and has told me so. Sometimes I work 6 hours day, sometimes 9. On average, about 7.5. The client are perfectly happy with this, because the work is done. ( I surf about 2 hours a day).

If they don't really keep track of the hours, then keep a (private) record of hours actually worked/on site. That should prove a good defence - work practices outside of IR35, when the contract would indicate inside!

( I'm not working in the UK, so I'm profoundly grateful I don't have to worry about these things )

working hours in contracts