Talent Resource Management

[NotAllThere]

...
Provided (and it might be a big but) an individual has declared on their tax return the income (min wage) paid to them, the fact that the scheme has been used and its number, and entered details of the "loan" etc. in the relevant bit of their tax return then they have fulfilled their obligations and there is no evasion...

Fair enough. How many scheme members here did declare as ASB described?

[Lewis]

This means that you are decalring it and paying the tax. Quite different from TRM whereby it is not declared and therefore falls in the realm of 'avoidance' or 'evasion'.

There is no need to declare a loan as long as it is a proper loan and you are paying interest. I would say it is not either avoidance or evasion. Who declares their mortgage on their tax return? Nobody.

My guess is that the only reason you would need to declare a loan is if it is a taxable benefit, which I assume is because there is no interest being charged on it.

EDIT - FYI Just read this http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...a-company.html seems these loan things are everywhere!

[Monkey Trousers]

Thinly veiled disguise

EDIT - FYI Just read this http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...a-company.html seems these loan things are everywhere!

Mmm, from How Bromley Support Services works in that post:

"You wouldn't need to bother about offsetting your expenses as most of your salary is tax free to start with."

and

"The other advantage with Bromley Support Services is that we sort out all your tax and NI for you up front"



Now, let's compare that with the Batchworth/TRM text:

"You wouldn't need to bother about expenses because a huge bulk of your money is tax free to start with!!"

and

"The other advantage with Payscheme Plus is that we sort out your tax and NI for you up front"



Oh... actually, http://forums.contractoruk.com/464893-post5.html has already spotted this and compared addresses.

So, it's not so much that these schemes are everywhere, it is TRM that's everywhere.

[ASB]

There is no need to declare a loan as long as it is a proper loan and you are paying interest. I would say it is not either avoidance or evasion. Who declares their mortgage on their tax return? Nobody.

My guess is that the only reason you would need to declare a loan is if it is a taxable benefit, which I assume is because there is no interest being charged on it.

EDIT - FYI Just read this http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...a-company.html seems these loan things are everywhere!

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/aiu/summary-disclosure-rules.htm

Not disclosing usage of a scheme incurs a modest penalty. Not registering it a big one. Users may need to register a scheme if it is provided by somebody offshore.

I think you may well be right that the "loan" doesn't need to be declared. My belief was that all payments received under a scheme were supposed to be declared on an individuals SA form - but I can't find any confirmation of this.

It seems that all users must therefore have filled in an SA form to at least declare their usage of the scheme. If it has been registered by the promoters then this is probably good enough.

[SteveO]

Please remain calm

Well it seems everyone is looking at what would happen if the loan is recalled. The fact is the Trust has to act in the interest of the members. Sooo i would think it would be easy to defend in court that its not in your interest to pay back right now. If it was recalled it goes back into the trust. The only way to get it out is to be a member.

The letter they sent seems to muddy the issue for people like us who are not accountants or lawyers. I would recommend to sit tight and wait for them to get back to us.

I'm really not worried about the HMRC. Tax avoidence is legal and almost NEVER retrospective. Any decent lawyer could fight it.

As for forgiving the loans.... If you forgive the loans while your an employee then you are liable for tax. If you nolonger work for the company then you can have it written off and there will not be any tax.

I'm going to wait till they get back to me and not panic. And no i don't work for them.

[eyetie]

Oh... actually, http://forums.contractoruk.com/464893-post5.html has already spotted this and compared addresses.

So, it's not so much that these schemes are everywhere, it is TRM that's everywhere.

Bromley = Batchworth overflow.

Has anyone asked Mr Moss to forgive their loans? I think that will be the real test of whether TRM is honest.

Personally, I can't see how things have drastically changed since the Redding letter: TRM used to handle the PAYE and loans and now only handle the PAYE with Redding managing the loans.

Sure, TRM is a risky venture but contracting as a whole is not for the faint-hearted.

Also, I must apologise for my low post count. Please feel free to ignore anything above until I make a few hundred gratuitous comments elsewhere and start a few vaguely-interesting threads themed around money, opportunity and the bizarre ending of Guy Ritchie's Revolver.

[NotAllThere]

I'll spell it out.

Is the scheme registered?
Did you declare the scheme on your tax returns?

If not, then it seems to me that one route of attack by HMRC would be to seek to show that the loans are not real loans, that you knew they weren't, and that would seem to indicate evasion.

[max]

So the company you "work for" (although you never really do), "loans" you a large amount money and says you never need to repay it.

Seems strange. Almost to good to be true. Actual tax paid 5% or so, some civic minded folks would be ashamed. I don't like to over pay to keep the country running...but this seems a bit extreme.

[Purple28]

I have just left TRM after being with them for a little over a year. What do you know about the Revenue investigation?

[argoran]

This means that you are decalring it and paying the tax. Quite different from TRM whereby it is not declared and therefore falls in the realm of 'avoidance' or 'evasion'.

What's the point of the loan then? the whole idea is that you do not pay taxes on a loan - if you do then not only are you paying taxes but you're stuck with a loan too???
Out of interest how much tax do you pay? corporate tax or NI&Income tax? because it would sound pretty unfeasible from a financial point of view as you would end up paying income tax on your whole salary ???