contract arrived.

[Not So Wise]

Opting in/Out has nothing to do with IR35, it's basiclly a limit on what the agency can/cannot do and what they should do

The agency will have a separate contract with the client that is nothing to do with you.

True, unless you get IR35 investigated and get taken to court then it does become a factor

[BA to the Stars]

My pimp stated that they would not send out the contract renewal until such time as they received the signed opt-out form.

They should remember that I could tell them to get lost and they lose the gig and I walk into another contract! Plus it is probably illegal (and certainly immoral to work in such a way but we are talking agencies here - sorry Dodgy).

[Ardesco]

True, unless you get IR35 investigated and get taken to court then it does become a factor

Either way you have no control over it. The contract between Agent and client is not the real problem, the real problem is the true working conditions on the ground. If you can proove that your working practises match your contract it doesn't matter what the contract between the agent and the client says.

[reddeagle]

Either way you have no control over it. The contract between Agent and client is not the real problem, the real problem is the true working conditions on the ground. If you can proove that your working practises match your contract it doesn't matter what the contract between the agent and the client says.

What does it actually mean to me if I opt in or out?

I had thought this was someting to do with IR35 but i guess thats wrong.

[DaveB]

If you have already met the client then the opt out doesn't apply to begin with. You can only opt out *before* meeting the end client, not after.

[shoes]

If you have already met the client then the opt out doesn't apply to begin with. You can only opt out *before* meeting the end client, not after.

The people you speak to on the phone at an agency in my experience are just not aware of this. They prefer you to opt out because its less hassle for them. Whether or not you are technically opted in or out won't make any difference if the agency is behaving as though you are opted out, unless of course there are any problems arising from you wanting to (and being able to) go direct to the client at the end of the contract, or you aren't paid for some reason. In the usual bum on seat world it's probably advantageous to opt out because that makes you more attractive to the agent placing you than a supposedly clued up contractor being a pain in the arse and demanding to opt in. Agencies are not supposed to use the opt in/out desire of a contractor to decide which one to take but obviously they do.

If you aren't worried about a clients and agencies ability to pay, and you know that the client won't want to take you on direct anyway, it's more sensible to opt out to save yourself and the agent hassle plus it works in your favour in getting the gig over a contractor that wants to opt in.

It's not how it should work but it seems to be what happens.

[TheFaQQer]

Some agencies will only offer an IR35 friendly contract if you opt out - there is nothing that stops them doing this, unfortunately.

[Pondlife]

If there are T&C in the contract that says "These T&C are only applicable if you are opted out" then you are not changing the T&C, they just no longer apply because you are no longer opted out. The contract still stands and the T&C still stand, nothing has changed from a legal point of view.

It is like having a contract that states "You are allowed to drive company cars if you have no points on your license". If you get some points on your license you have not changed the T&C of the contract, you just have a term that no longer applies.

<insert random example here>

Don't really agree as I can't see many agencies issuing one contract having clauses that are different depending on your status. For example. You can only be held responsible for your work and have to fix errors at your own cost if outside the regulations. This clause would be illegal if inside. I therefore cannot see how you can change your status and opt back in if it invalidates your contract terms.

[malvolio]

...snip... I therefore cannot see how you can change your status and opt back in if it invalidates your contract terms.

Now that's a good question...

I think I'll go ask the experts!

[TheFaQQer]

Don't really agree as I can't see many agencies issuing one contract having clauses that are different depending on your status. For example. You can only be held responsible for your work and have to fix errors at your own cost if outside the regulations. This clause would be illegal if inside. I therefore cannot see how you can change your status and opt back in if it invalidates your contract terms.

Most contracts have a severability clause in them - if any of the other clauses are found to be illegal / not-relevant, then the rest of the contract still stands.

I believe that this would still be the case if opting in made any changes to the contract terms. The past couple of contracts I've done have got clauses that say (in effect) "If you are opting in, then ... otherwise ..." The bulk of the contract is the same, it's just about going back to the client, and terms of payment, usually.