EB Regs - Agency wants me to opt out - Why ?

[psychocandy]

I know they're breaking the law.

They called me this morning asking me to re-send them the e-mail saying I made a mistake and want to opt out. I haven't replied. Then they called me again at lunch time. I told them I'll think about it... I'm now wondering if I should deal with that agent or not.

Let them sweat it out I reckon. They seem pretty desperate so it doesnt sound like they've got another candidate lined up. Would be strange for them to can you based on this anyway.

Of course, you could always agree anyway and just do it. My understanding is its not valid anyway since you've been introduced to the client beforehand anyway. I guess if you ever had to fight it the court would ask, what date did the contractor first get introduced to the client? And what date was the opt out signed? End of.

[SueEllen]

If you're not that fussed about the role and want to make a point, send them these two links:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...lation/32/made
http://www.bis.gov.uk/files/file24248.pdf

Direct them to Regulation 32(13) of the first link and the similar point on page 34 in the second. Tell them that they're breaking the law by trying to force you to opt out.

Phone this number up 0800 917 2368 and report them to the Department of BIS. They won't give your name to the agency.

BTW if you can name the agency other people who have had dealings with them may also make a complaint.

[calder]

I just found out the agency is a member of one of these: REC, ARC, APSCo. I understand I can complain to them directly about the agency's behaviour, but I'm not sure it will be useful... Anyone has experience with that?

Also, I know the opt out has to be signed before I start the work or before I meet the client. What do we mean by "signed" ? Is it a separate paper document that needs to be hand signed by me before I meet the client, can an e-mail sent by me (before I meet the client) be considered as a "signed" document ?

[malvolio]

I just found out the agency is a member of one of these: REC, ARC, APSCo. I understand I can complain to them directly about the agency's behaviour, but I'm not sure it will be useful... Anyone has experience with that?

Also, I know the opt out has to be signed before I start the work or before I meet the client. What do we mean by "signed" ? Is it a separate paper document that needs to be hand signed by me before I meet the client, can an e-mail sent by me (before I meet the client) be considered as a "signed" document ?

You need to have explicitly written (snail or e mail) stating that both you personally and YourCo do not wish the Agency REgulations to apply to this engagement, befirore you are introduced tot the client.

As I've said "intorduced" means different things to different people, but once you've started work all bets are off. So the letter really needs to gio in with the original application if it is to have any real meaning.

If you're in the PCG (and if not, why not... ), there's a detailed guide to it all for members to download that includes how you opt out (or not).

Going back to the original opint, REC has teeth, APSCo thinks it has but hasn't, ARC is just a trade body. Complain to REC that one of its members is acting illegally, and you may get a reaction. Or tell us who it is and I can escalate it through another route.

[The Agents View]

This is a good demonstration of why these rules do not stand up in a court.

Ultimately, the very nature of contract work, is quick turnaround. If you think I would have the time to wait for an opt in or opt out form to come through prior to submission, then you are from another planet. Anyone who insisted on this, would simply be binned for causing me more hassle than they are worth.

The above, is the reason I stay anonymous on this board. It's the reality of the situation vs what the rules state.

[SueEllen]

This is a good demonstration of why these rules do not stand up in a court.

These rules have never been tested in a court to public knowledge.

Ultimately, the very nature of contract work, is quick turnaround. If you think I would have the time to wait for an opt in or opt out form to come through prior to submission, then you are from another planet. Anyone who insisted on this, would simply be binned for causing me more hassle than they are worth.

Oddly the only time I ever opted-out the agent managed to do it via email.

So the fact that you are too busy to do it means that you have lots of opted-in contractors. I don't know how you do your contracts but if you put opt-out all over them then you could end up with lots of problems.

The above, is the reason I stay anonymous on this board. It's the reality of the situation vs what the rules state.

Most people on this board are anonymous for good reason. Though due to what they have posted people have been caught out.

[malvolio]

Ultimately, the very nature of contract work, is quick turnaround. If you think I would have the time to wait for an opt in or opt out form to come through prior to submission, then you are from another planet.

Do you do this agency thing for a living or are you helping out a mate?

You have a job on Jobserve (OK, Broadbean and 30 job boards). I send you an email containing three things - a brief note as to why I'm right for the job, a copy of the CV and a letter saying me and MyCo are opting out of the regs. How hard is that?

And, if you really understood your own business properly, you would realise that if we all did that, your contracts would actually be legal. Right now you have a group of opted in contractors with contractual clauses you cannot actually enforce.

[calder]

This is a good demonstration of why these rules do not stand up in a court.

Ultimately, the very nature of contract work, is quick turnaround. If you think I would have the time to wait for an opt in or opt out form to come through prior to submission, then you are from another planet. Anyone who insisted on this, would simply be binned for causing me more hassle than they are worth.

The above, is the reason I stay anonymous on this board. It's the reality of the situation vs what the rules state.

Firstly, there's no such things as opt in form as every contract is opt in by default.
Secondly, in this example, the only one who is delaying everything (hence wasting everyone's time) is the agent who tries to force (illegally, by the way) a contractor to opt out and requires the contractor sends them an opt out form before they submit the contractor's CV to the client.

If all agents could respect the law (ie. ask the contractor if they want to opt in or opt out, and whatever their response is, send their CV to the client instead of trying to force them to opt out) things would move faster for everyone.

[The Agents View]

Do you do this agency thing for a living or are you helping out a mate?

Are you frikkin kidding me?

You have a job on Jobserve (OK, Broadbean and 30 job boards). I send you an email containing three things - a brief note as to why I'm right for the job, a copy of the CV and a letter saying me and MyCo are opting out of the regs. How hard is that?

Very easy. However, how many people actually do that? I have been doing this for a good few years, and I've NEVER seen anyone send an opt out in their application.

And, if you really understood your own business properly, you would realise that if we all did that, your contracts would actually be legal. Right now you have a group of opted in contractors with contractual clauses you cannot actually enforce.

Wanna try it?

[The Agents View]

Oddly the only time I ever opted-out the agent managed to do it via email.

So the fact that you are too busy to do it means that you have lots of opted-in contractors. I don't know how you do your contracts but if you put opt-out all over them then you could end up with lots of problems.

Legal advice from the REC, and from our process auditors, suggests that the presence of the opt out form at any time in the process, pre-payment, is submissable as agreement to opt-in or out. Given that most people with business brains opt-out, and the business runs over 3500 contractors, without having ever had an issue with opt-in/opt-out - we're either sitting the biggest commercial time-bomb ever, or this information is correct.