Inside IR35 contracts with 2/3 days on site for travelling contractors

[JohnM]

One thing no one has mentioned yet is the impact IR35 is having on the UK based flexibility of the contractor market. Before the rules where changed it was really common for contractors to travel all over the country for contracts. Now, with IR35 and the take home pay travelling to places like London 2 or 3 times per week on inside IR35 contracts just does not make financial sense anymore. I have had to turn down a few gigs over the last few weeks due to this issue, I am based in Northern England and always used to travel for contracts pre covid and pre IR35. Its strangling the contractor market to death the IR35 reforms in so many ways

[jamesbrown]

I think there has been quite a lot of discussion about this, but I agree that tax deductible business expenses and ErNI are the two elephants in the room w/r to IR35.

[northernladuk]

One thing no one has mentioned yet is the impact IR35 is having on the UK based flexibility of the contractor market. Before the rules where changed it was really common for contractors to travel all over the country for contracts. Now, with IR35 and the take home pay travelling to places like London 2 or 3 times per week on inside IR35 contracts just does not make financial sense anymore. I have had to turn down a few gigs over the last few weeks due to this issue, I am based in Northern England and always used to travel for contracts pre covid and pre IR35. Its strangling the contractor market to death the IR35 reforms in so many ways

I don't wish to be rude but which rock have you been living under all these years? It appears we haven't mentioned it (which we have.. a lot!) is because that discussion point sailed years ago.

It was discussed heavily in 2016 when the rules about expenses for Umbrellas changed
It was further discussed at least a year before the changes to the public sector hit in 2017
It was also discussed between 2017 and 2021 when we expected the changes to extend to the private sector in 2021
It was moaned about constantly after they hit with many contractors being moved inside and could no longer stay at their gigs so had to leave.

What is this news to you?

If you'd had have a clue of what was happening in your industry you might have joined the numerous fights that went on to try combat the gov and/or educate clients on the effects of the blanket banning or moving their contractors inside instead of complaining about it over 6 years after the issue first emerged.

What you are missing that it also means travelling contractors can't come to your area and more local roles appear so there is a flipside to it. Some areas will benefit more than others for sure but watching the market and the State of the Market thread I think the statement that it's strangling the contractor market to death is a bit of an over exaggeration. It was a difficult time riding the merry go round at the time and some have left to take up lucrative perm roles for sure but it's hardly strangulated the market IMO.

JB says it's the elephant in the room which also surprises me. It's been a key topic of discussion at every point and times inbetween. Maybe I've misunderstood what he means by that but it's certainly been up for discussion a lot from what I can see.

[northernladuk]

As an example, and there are plenty to pick from, we had a good sticky from TF when public sector hit and the expenses situation is mentioned in the first post.

https://forums.contractoruk.com/ir35...bout-ir35.html

[jmo21]

what they said ^^^

I have had to turn down a few gigs over the last few weeks due to this issue

What was your contract situation just before this? Long term (5 year) gig, or always picked up new contracts super quick?

Definite head in the sand if you think this is a new thing/people never talk about it.

[psychocandy]

I don't wish to be rude but which rock have you been living under all these years? It appears we haven't mentioned it (which we have.. a lot!) is because that discussion point sailed years ago.

It was discussed heavily in 2016 when the rules about expenses for Umbrellas changed
It was further discussed at least a year before the changes to the public sector hit in 2017
It was also discussed between 2017 and 2021 when we expected the changes to extend to the private sector in 2021
It was moaned about constantly after they hit with many contractors being moved inside and could no longer stay at their gigs so had to leave.

What is this news to you?

If you'd had have a clue of what was happening in your industry you might have joined the numerous fights that went on to try combat the gov and/or educate clients on the effects of the blanket banning or moving their contractors inside instead of complaining about it over 6 years after the issue first emerged.

What you are missing that it also means travelling contractors can't come to your area and more local roles appear so there is a flipside to it. Some areas will benefit more than others for sure but watching the market and the State of the Market thread I think the statement that it's strangling the contractor market to death is a bit of an over exaggeration. It was a difficult time riding the merry go round at the time and some have left to take up lucrative perm roles for sure but it's hardly strangulated the market IMO.

JB says it's the elephant in the room which also surprises me. It's been a key topic of discussion at every point and times inbetween. Maybe I've misunderstood what he means by that but it's certainly been up for discussion a lot from what I can see.

Got to be fair NLUK is not wrong here.... For a change.
IR35 has been around for years now. And yes it costs more for travel/hotels etc if you can't claim it as expenses - but as NLUK says its not news.

On the plus side, Covid has had a massive positive effect for some of us. I think more than anything its shown organisations that remote working works. Previously, as a contractor I found if I asked to WFH I'd get a funny look.

So those of us who live away from the south east etc and don't fancy a week in a hotel on their own its brill. I never did this anyway.

[TheDude]

One thing no one has mentioned yet is the impact IR35 is having on the UK based flexibility of the contractor market. Before the rules where changed it was really common for contractors to travel all over the country for contracts. Now, with IR35 and the take home pay travelling to places like London 2 or 3 times per week on inside IR35 contracts just does not make financial sense anymore. I have had to turn down a few gigs over the last few weeks due to this issue, I am based in Northern England and always used to travel for contracts pre covid and pre IR35. Its strangling the contractor market to death the IR35 reforms in so many ways

If you want London money you could suck up the cost of living close to London. Alternatively you could find a gig in Manchester or Leeds on a much lower rate.

[eek]

If you want London money you could suck up the cost of living close to London. Alternatively you could find a gig in Manchester or Leeds on a much lower rate.

Or just take the money being paid for a fully remote gig (which my current bank contract is albeit at a good rate). You don't really need to be on site when 3/4 of the team are in India.

[TheDude]

Or just take the money being paid for a fully remote gig (which my current bank contract is albeit at a good rate). You don't really need to be on site when 3/4 of the team are in India.

For some reason I have to be onsite 2 days a week despite my team being in the US and India.

[_V_]

For some reason I have to be onsite 2 days a week despite my team being in the US and India.

Managers have to justify their existence, checking your bum is on a seat there.

I too have worked contracts where everyone else is in Eastern Europe and India, working remotely, but the UK people had to be in the office. Reason given, well you can get into the office in 2 hours, they can't. That was the only reason given by the micromanagement there.