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Inside IR35 role: Notice Periods

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    #11
    Originally posted by eek View Post
    That sounds like the old Barclay's contracts.

    We can and will get shot of you at zero notice (or cut rates by 10%) but you can't leave before the contract end date.

    The legality of that on a contract of employment will be an interesting court case when it arrives.
    Not just Barclays, UBS as well. It had a clause and said zero days notice. I said to the agency that I am glad I can leave without giving any notice, they tried to argue that it is applicable from the client side and not my side, I argued that my interpretation is correct :-). Finally they amended the contract with 2 weeks notice from both parties :-)

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      #12
      Originally posted by ladymuck View Post

      Then as suggested, go back with a copy/paste of a decent termination clause from a previous contract.

      Are you going to be on agency payroll or via a brolly?

      I suppose I'm wondering whether it's worth the hassle. In an inside IR35 contract if there is no mention of notice periods then there isn't one for the client or employee, therefore both parties owe the time on the contract. Should they want to get rid of me after a few weeks, they will very likely be able to, as can I to them. I was just interested whether this is legally enforceable, because to my layperson eyes it would appear that the client would owe me the remainder of the contract because there is MOO in an inside IR35 contract, by definition.

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        #13
        Originally posted by BigDataPro View Post

        Not just Barclays, UBS as well. It had a clause and said zero days notice. I said to the agency that I am glad I can leave without giving any notice, they tried to argue that it is applicable from the client side and not my side, I argued that my interpretation is correct :-). Finally they amended the contract with 2 weeks notice from both parties :-)
        If this contract was outside IR35 then what you have just stated displays MOO. You want zero days notice for all parties for an outside IR35 contract. You live and learn.

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          #14
          Originally posted by agentzero View Post

          If this contract was outside IR35 then what you have just stated displays MOO. You want zero days notice for all parties for an outside IR35 contract. You live and learn.
          Not really. It's excellent defence to prove your are in business and risk but MoO is generally about the obligation to give work AFTER the current work is done. Being done on the spot is part of being in a business and the T&Cs. They can withdraw work from no more pay so effectively you are done but the contract will still continue till it expires. It's in the terms and conditions.
          'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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            #15
            Originally posted by agentzero View Post


            I suppose I'm wondering whether it's worth the hassle. In an inside IR35 contract if there is no mention of notice periods then there isn't one for the client or employee, therefore both parties owe the time on the contract. Should they want to get rid of me after a few weeks, they will very likely be able to, as can I to them. I was just interested whether this is legally enforceable, because to my layperson eyes it would appear that the client would owe me the remainder of the contract because there is MOO in an inside IR35 contract, by definition.
            Again no. The T&C's will say you get paid X per day for work done with a timesheet as evidence. If you do no work you do not get paid so you are not owed anything.

            It's easily enforceable as I've just mentioned in the post above. They ask you to do no more work on the T&C contract, which means you don't get paid and the contract expires whenever. Effective instant termination within the T&Cs. Thankfully not many clients are this cut throat.

            But this is a good example where people are confused and make assumptions because there is no termination clause. If there is no option to terminate then get them to put in the contract for clarity.
            'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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              #16
              Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

              Not really. It's excellent defence to prove your are in business and risk but MoO is generally about the obligation to give work AFTER the current work is done. Being done on the spot is part of being in a business and the T&Cs. They can withdraw work from no more pay so effectively you are done but the contract will still continue till it expires. It's in the terms and conditions.
              In an inside IR35 world then the project has a set start date and end date. I would argue that this really means that given employee notice and employer notice period doesn't exist in this contract then there either is no notice period OR standard legal default notice periods must then be used as dictated by employment law.

              As Eek correctly highlighted none of this will matter until it heads to court one day when a fussy employee/client feels it necessary to do so.

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                #17
                Originally posted by agentzero View Post

                In an inside IR35 world then the project has a set start date and end date. I would argue that this really means that given employee notice and employer notice period doesn't exist in this contract then there either is no notice period OR standard legal default notice periods must then be used as dictated by employment law.

                As Eek correctly highlighted none of this will matter until it heads to court one day when a fussy employee/client feels it necessary to do so.
                Instead of arguing or talking about court why don't you just ask them to clarify and everyone is happy? Why would standard notice as dictated my EMPLOYMENT law have anything to do with a B2B contract. Inside/Outside relates to the tax situation and nothing to do with employment (at this point).
                'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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                  #18
                  As a long term contractor I agree in principle with having it clarified and in the contract, I was really posting this question for future reference for other inside IR35 contractors. Some pay more than any outside role, in niche areas, and there is definitely a future case that will attempt to link to inside IR35 contracts and employee rights. It may not succeed, but it is still an ongoing and complex area.

                  I am reminded of this:
                  https://www.qdoscontractor.com/news/...loyment-rights

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                    #19
                    In reality there are no such thing as notice periods for contractors. You can leave when you want, and the client can stop giving you work whenever they want ("Sorry no budget, see ya"). The client isnt going to chase up for 1 weeks work or compensation etc. At worst, all you'll do is burn a few bridges with the agency and client.

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                      #20
                      Originally posted by agentzero View Post
                      In the good old days I looked for zero day notice periods, client and Ltd Co, b2b relationship.

                      I'm taking a well paying inside IR35 role but there's no mention of notice periods in the contract. Is this good or bad? The agency don't have an answer but say the client can still get rid of me at any time. However they have also said that I can't give notice on the contract at any time. If unwell or something awful happens the client could initiate the termination of the contract.

                      Has anybody encountered this before? Being unable to give notice on an inside IR35 contract doesn't make sense, because I'm not trying to cover myself from an IR35 investigation as the contract is already inside IR35. It seems that under these circumstances it would be better to have a notice period that is in line with an employee contract or something more sensible, such as client/contractor 7 days notice.
                      I am presently at a major bank .... I can confirm that all of our contracts can be terminated immediately ... and on both sides.

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