Inside IR35 Rates vs Equivalent Perm Salary

[edison]

Well my actual question wasn't really about PAYE vs umbrella (just a bad assumption on my part to lump them together).

My question was more around what the equivalent inside (PAYE) rate was vs a perm salary.

So for example if a £90k perm salary gives a take home of £5070 per month, what inside rate would give the same monthly take home?

Just hoping to get an idea in basic terms to help inform a decision.

As has been mentioned above, you can't really compare them like for like. One key reason is that as permanent salary increases to middle/senior manager levels, then the proportion of your total package that is base salary will fall when you factor in things like annual bonus, employer pension contribution, company car allowance, share options and other share schemes, private health insurance etc. All that could easily be 50% on top of your base salary in a large successful company. I had perm jobs at two FTSE100 companies where my base salary was around £70-80k and my total non-salary remuneration was almost 50% at one company and over 100% at the other in my best year.

[chriscomp]

I'd suggest £500 /day (inside IR35, via brolly, 220 days works per year) is equivalent to ~£86k /year perm job.

I use (£500 * 220 * 0.53), then pump gross pay figures into an online calculator until you reach the take-home pay:
Income tax calculator: Find out your take-home pay - MSE

[northernladuk]

I'd suggest £500 /day (inside IR35, via brolly, 220 days works per year) is equivalent to ~£86k /year perm job.

I use (£500 * 220 * 0.53), then pump gross pay figures into an online calculator until you reach the take-home pay:
Income tax calculator: Find out your take-home pay - MSE

Have you factored holidays, pension, sickeness, other benefits, the fact gigs can end and usually don't last a year?

It's just not as simple as that.

[chriscomp]

Have you factored holidays, pension, sickeness, other benefits, the fact gigs can end and usually don't last a year?

It's just not as simple as that.

220 days accounts for holidays and sickness. The OP didn't mention any other benefits. I ignored pension contrib. As a rough estimate, I don't think it's far off.

[NowPermOutsideUK]

This question comes up time and again and I always see low perm salaries being given out by posters

If you have a 500 per day outside role then that is equivalent to 100k perm easily assuming 220 days after tax if you run the ltd properly. In fact I would say it was even more then 100k

[philgo]

Have you factored holidays, pension, sickeness, other benefits, the fact gigs can end and usually don't last a year?

It's just not as simple as that.

Very true...
Hard to compare but if trying, everything should be computed and compare on same role.
So permanent basic salary+holidays+pension+Bonus+ benefits (PMI, life insurance etc...) + job security VERSUS Day rate inside IR35 + insecurity.
In my humble opinion, a day rate inside IR35 not topped up by client/agency to cover Employer's NI + Levy is less worthy than a perm job.

[CatOnMat]

Very true...
Hard to compare but if trying, everything should be computed and compare on same role.
So permanent basic salary+holidays+pension+Bonus+ benefits (PMI, life insurance etc...) + job security VERSUS Day rate inside IR35 + insecurity.
In my humble opinion, a day rate inside IR35 not topped up by client/agency to cover Employer's NI + Levy is less worthy than a perm job.

Just worth noting that in the first couple of years job security in so-called "perm" jobs is usually rather overstated - while there is at least a paid notice period (unlike for contractors where the client could simply ask them not to work and/or not sign timesheets), employees can generally only claim unfair dismissal against an employer if they have a minimum of two years’ service.

[philgo]

Just worth noting that in the first couple of years job security in so-called "perm" jobs is usually rather overstated - while there is at least a paid notice period (unlike for contractors where the client could simply ask them not to work and/or not sign timesheets), employees can generally only claim unfair dismissal against an employer if they have a minimum of two years’ service.

True. But as an example when there is a budget cut on client side the first being out are the contractors not the permies. So on this basis in my opinion contract work is less secure than a permy job.
Then when a client needs to get rid of permies, there will be usually a plan.
Worst case the perm is out because his performances are inadequate. I have seen that but in that case the permy had started only few months ago in that company.

[northernladuk]

True. But as an example when there is a budget cut on client side the first being out are the contractors not the permies. So on this basis in my opinion contract work is less secure than a permy job.
Then when a client needs to get rid of permies, there will be usually a plan.
Worst case the perm is out because his performances are inadequate. I have seen that but in that case the permy had started only few months ago in that company.

You are looking at it per role which isn't a true representation. You need to look at it holistically over a period. We get canned from gigs or they end. That's what we do. Security is about being able to get more work everytime one comes to an end.

In the old days I'd have said contracting had more job security as gigs came more or less end to end where as a perm gets canned and it can be difficult to get another role. Things have changed now for both types of work. I think it's not as clear cut anymore. Perms are being let go and contractors are spending increasing amounts of time on the bench so not the best time to be trying to argue which is most secure.

[mogga71]

As has been said, there is no meaningful answer, but if your gross salary is £90k and your umbrella invoices £90k a year plus their fees on your behalf, then they should net out to the same.

Pardon my ignorance ... but is that correct?

If a permie accepts a salary of 90k then that does not include Employers NI and they don't have to worry about it. Whereas the Contractor through the Umbrella Company has to effectively pay that Employer NI .... basically the contractor is employing an employer (Umbrella Company) who make it appear that the Umbrella Company is paying the Employer NI but its the contractor actually paying it.

I would have though that a permie salary of £90K is way better than a contractor invoicing his Umbrella Company for £90k ... apart from the employer NI, there are pensions and maybe bonus's involved?

Apologies if I have misunderstood.