Advice on move from permie to contracting?

[malvolio]

I don't agree with this at all. This is a failure of the organisation more than the individual. An organisation is responsible for developing managerial skills more than an individual is. It is always preferable to have a manager with subject matter knowledge than a career manager.

Yes, but in the real world (excluding service occupations like sales, HR and the like) there are far more of the latter than the former, and most of the former I've worked with haven't been good managers because they still think they are experts.

Look on it as a Venn diagram. You need knowledge, strategic skills, an ability to handle abstractions (financial needs, corporate intentions, vision and the like) and a supportive personality. The best managers have all of them - but that overlap is very small.

[northernladuk]

I'm surprised no one has really pulled his plan apart and added a dose of reality to it all.

I've been working for 15 years at a pretty decent IT company, been a lead developer for the last 6 or 7 years. However, in the past 2-3 years my salary has started to plateau, been turned down for a couple of promotions, etc. so getting a bit fed up, but still enjoying the work mostly.

If you enjoy the work then you should stay. Covid and IR35 have screwed contracting. More on that later

I'd also like to do some travelling in the 2nd half of 2021 (assuming covid starts to settle down) - the company offers (unpaid) career break option, or I could just leave.

Long term, I like the idea of contracting and taking time off between contracts to travel and pursue my own interests. Looking at contracting rates, I reckon I could do this, take a few months off each year, and still come out the same as (or ahead of) where I am now financially.

Doesn't work like that. Pipe dream.

Short term, in an ideal world, I could leave my job now and take a 6 month contract which would take me up to the summer, and I'd earn more money than my current job. Of course this isn't an ideal world

And try get gigs in a seriously depressed market with a 6 month break? Assume that break will be a year+ and see how viable it will be.

Is the long term plan viable? Lots of (say) 6 month contracts with a few months breaks in between?

No/

IR35 - is it reducing the number of contracting opportunities?

It's going to decimate them.

[*] Covid/Brexit/visas/the economy generally - is this a bad time to start contracting? Maybe better to stick with my current job, take time off in summer, and then look again at contracting winter 2021

I wonder....

I also have a 60 day notice period with my current job, so might be hard to land a contract / require taking a leap of faith if I don't want to burn my bridges with where I work now

Go first, then find gig.

Interested to get some opinions here. There seems to be a lot of negative views of the contracting market on here right now, understandably so. What are your thoughts generally about my options?

I think there are some major flaws in it that can't be underestimated. You are about to enter contracting at the worst period since contracting started. You've got the covid issue so no one's job/role is secure. It offers some benefits with location not being an issue but even those gigs can evaporate in a day.
You've then got IR35 which is going to be a disaster. Many wise and talented contractors are jumping perm and nabbing the juicy gigs before all hell lets lose. A large number of gigs are going to go inside which will be unsustainable by many so there are going to be tens of thousands of very experienced contractors looking for work. Most of them will have started already trying to jump ship before determinations.
The chances of you getting gauranteed 6 months on 6 months off outside IR35 gigs? None whatsoever. Even if you do the first on and off will destroy your CV. No one is going to want a contractor with one 6 monther and a long break. Looks more like you can't cut it and your will be a risk to the agency so they won't touch you.

If you've a perm gig that's secure and you still enjoy then you are close to the top of the tree IMO. This is not the time to be moving jobs let alone giving it up and going contracting.

Come back in a year when the dust has settled and see what's what then.

[jayn200]

Yes, but in the real world (excluding service occupations like sales, HR and the like) there are far more of the latter than the former, and most of the former I've worked with haven't been good managers because they still think they are experts.

Look on it as a Venn diagram. You need knowledge, strategic skills, an ability to handle abstractions (financial needs, corporate intentions, vision and the like) and a supportive personality. The best managers have all of them - but that overlap is very small.

I guess everyone's experience is quite different. The career managers I have worked with have either had unsuccessful teams or they've had successful teams who largely ignore them. I've never seen one actually make a positive impact. They either get ignored and the people who know what they are doing get on without them or they hold back production. No one ever respects them. This is why there has been a move towards management who have subject matter expertise. You are stuck in the past.

It's also crazy to think that someone intelligent enough to be successful at programming especially a lead developer won't be able to figure out the bigger picture concepts.

What is the most successful background for an MBA student? a background in engineering. Engineers are the most successful in post MBA senior management. What does that tell you? it tells me that the skillset and aptitude engineers possess lead to success in management.

[malvolio]

I guess everyone's experience is quite different. The career managers I have worked with have either had unsuccessful teams or they've had successful teams who largely ignore them. I've never seen one actually make a positive impact. They either get ignored and the people who know what they are doing get on without them or they hold back production. No one ever respects them. This is why there has been a move towards management who have subject matter expertise. You are stuck in the past.

It's also crazy to think that someone intelligent enough to be successful at programming especially a lead developer won't be able to figure out the bigger picture concepts.

What is the most successful background for an MBA student? a background in engineering. Engineers are the most successful in post MBA senior management. What does that tell you? it tells me that the skillset and aptitude engineers possess lead to success in management.

Written like a good senior IT technician. Try it from a management consultancy perspective, which is where I was for well over 20 years, working inside and outside IT. I'm not "stuck in the past", just realistic about the UK's middle management tier.

From my perspective, the big advantage of Agile, when used properly, is that it takes those managers out of the equation.

[jayn200]

Written like a good senior IT technician. Try it from a management consultancy perspective, which is where I was for well over 20 years, working inside and outside IT. I'm not "stuck in the past", just realistic about the UK's middle management tier.

From my perspective, the big advantage of Agile, when used properly, is that it takes those managers out of the equation.

Sure, I guess. I've had offers from many management consultancies. They love people like me, technical background, mba from a top school, good problem solver, great communication skills, super presentable. I never went down that path but flirted with it. The idea of being away from home, working 70 hour weeks and taking home half what I do now just never made sense to me but don't equate that to me being unable to understand where you are coming from. I get it completely, I have had many senior managers, coaches, professors, etc try to sell me on the idea that leaders are just a different breed of people and the working class or even white collar middle class just don't have what it takes. All salesmen just leeching off those who can actually produce.

[northernladuk]

Sure, I guess. I've had offers from many management consultancies. They love people like me, technical background, mba from a top school, good problem solver, great communication skills, super presentable. .

So why are you such a ******* tedious moron on here then?

[BR14]

Sure, I guess. I've had offers from many management consultancies. They love people like me, technical background, mba from a top school, good problem solver, great communication skills, super presentable. .

you forgot humble and self effacing, but i'm sure that was just an oversight.

[GhostofTarbera]

you forgot humble and self effacing, but i'm sure that was just an oversight.

Did me miss bum bandit?

Comin guys - it’s Xmas

Group hug?


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[skyhawk172]

Thanks for the replies everyone, very much appreciated!

Some great points to think over.

What's your technology area?

Technology area at the moment is JavaScript/TypeScript/Node.js/AWS/CDK, AWS Certified, but I also have a lot of Java experience. As well as development/design/banging out code, I'd say I also have a lot to bring to the table in terms of leadership, mentoring, communication, helping product people define/split/sequence work to maximise business value.

If you’re any good there’ll be so much work that you never take your months long break.

I see where you're coming from, but I value my freedom/free-time/non-work-goals so I'm confident I'll be disciplined enough to do that

15 years with one company means you're likely to be embedded into a way of thinking that will clash with client expectations of you as a supplier. You will be expected to have most, if not all the answers - why hire an expert if they don't know more than the staff?

Yeah I'm conscious of this - I guess my knowledge of the above technologies is filtered by the way I've used it in my current role so there are likely knowledge gaps. Also, a significant amount of my time in my current job is pulled in a "less technical" direction, so I'd say my knowledge of specific technologies is not always super-thorough but I make up for it with general technical ability/know-how/experience/leadership/street-smart/common sense. Not sure if this is the right skill set for contracting?

If you have been passed over for promotion a few times your probably no good, so won’t cut it against experienced contractors, stay where you are would be my advice

Not being a developer, what is the next rung up from a lead developer?

Promotion is not to management per-se, but to a tech lead that would be over multiple teams, with a bit more architecting/self-directed research/overall setting technical direction for department/a little management stuff/influencing. Feedback from my attempts has varied but basically to get the role they expect you to have more of a company-wide "personal brand", influencing senior execs, etc. whereas I tend to focus more on day-to-day work and getting things done.

So am I no good? Not sure, the company I work for is very competitive internally with a lot of ambitious people and I've always gotten good reviews for my current job, it's that next rung up I struggle with, but I do lack that external perspective that would give me a clear view of strengths/weaknesses that would give me the confidence to make the move... if that makes sense?

getting the first contract is usually easy enough - getting the next one is harder (that difficult second album).

I haven't seen this anywhere else yet, can you give me a quick overview please / point me in the direction of some info? Seems like an interesting and potentially important point

I think there are some major flaws in it that can't be underestimated. You are about to enter contracting at the worst period since contracting started. You've got the covid issue so no one's job/role is secure. It offers some benefits with location not being an issue but even those gigs can evaporate in a day.

Thanks northernladuk for the detailed breakdown, those are the things I need to have my eyes open to. Sounds like there's a lot of agreement that now is maybe not the time.

In that case maybe I'd be better staying where I am for now, taking time off when the virus situation improves (if that takes longer than expected, then my time off will be further away and the market will likely be worse by then) and then take another look at contracting in a year/18 months...

[jamesbrown]

Technology area at the moment is JavaScript/TypeScript/Node.js/AWS/CDK, AWS Certified, but I also have a lot of Java experience. As well as development/design/banging out code, I'd say I also have a lot to bring to the table in terms of leadership, mentoring, communication, helping product people define/split/sequence work to maximise business value.

You and pretty much every other jobless IT contractor out there. Stick with what you have a count yourself lucky, imho.