leaving and permie taking over

[LondonManc]

If it's not on your SoW, you should of course quote for the job.

Absolutely this. If handover and training isn’t in either the contracted deliverables or any statement of work, then doing them is a bigger IR35 issue than training a permie up to replace you. Talk nicely with your hiring manager, explaining what your contracted deliverables are as a supplier. Handover documents often are but training isn’t. If this brain dump is not part of it but you’re prepared to do it, quote for the work at a rate you’d be prepared to do it for.

[SussexSeagull]

I agree. He probably meant by worked out as they are still able to deliver... I wouldn't say that has worked out but i guess maybe that's his interpretation?

There was an era about ten years ago when it was de rigueur to outsource development to India regardless of the fact in most examples it was hugely ineffective. It really was emperor's new clothes territory for a while.

[edison]

There was an era about ten years ago when it was de rigueur to outsource development to India regardless of the fact in most examples it was hugely ineffective. It really was emperor's new clothes territory for a while.

About 10 years ago I was working at a major company that used one of the smaller Indian outsourcers and to be honest they were fairly good, their onshore staff were very good. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next 10 years as companies continue to come under cost pressure again post-Covid. It wouldn't surprise me to see another upturn of outsourcing to the likes of the Philippines and Vietnam.

[coolhandluke]

About 10 years ago I was working at a major company that used one of the smaller Indian outsourcers and to be honest they were fairly good, their onshore staff were very good. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next 10 years as companies continue to come under cost pressure again post-Covid. It wouldn't surprise me to see another upturn of outsourcing to the likes of the Philippines and Vietnam.

For the last 6 years every gig I've been involved with has had some form of offshore resource and on the whole they have been great. Plus I'm seeing more and more Eastern European agencies popping up.

Was having a discussion with a couple of perms I know and they wouldn't accept that an outsource partner could deliver anything complicated when they were based in India.

I did mention that India have a space agency and have put several rockets into space and that was probably more complicated than their website!

[LondonManc]

For the last 6 years every gig I've been involved with has had some form of offshore resource and on the whole they have been great. Plus I'm seeing more and more Eastern European agencies popping up.

Was having a discussion with a couple of perms I know and they wouldn't accept that an outsource partner could deliver anything complicated when they were based in India.

I did mention that India have a space agency and have put several rockets into space and that was probably more complicated than their website!

I’ve seen very mixed results. Partly from expectations being high but partly because you’re replacing experienced people over here with cheap green’n’keen graduates offshore. Depends very much what you want to achieve and “something successful quickly” sits firmly in the onshore camp.

[Lance]

I’ve seen very mixed results. Partly from expectations being high but partly because you’re replacing experienced people over here with cheap green’n’keen graduates offshore. Depends very much what you want to achieve and “something successful quickly” sits firmly in the onshore camp.

this...


It amazes me when they can get good resource cheap they always provide crap resource even cheaper.

I had an argument with an SI once who provided a SAP consultant for £150 a day. We only needed 3/4 hours working but it was time critical and we had a migration that was dependant on its success. The client would have paid £5,000 a day it was that important but that was the only way the SI would do it.
Suffice to say he f**ked it up
That was Crap Gemini.

Same battle with TCS. We want quality for a good price, not just the best price.

[SussexSeagull]

I’ve seen very mixed results. Partly from expectations being high but partly because you’re replacing experienced people over here with cheap green’n’keen graduates offshore. Depends very much what you want to achieve and “something successful quickly” sits firmly in the onshore camp.

At the time it was predominately India being outsourced to and I think the problem was they tried to integrate technical staff into European projects and the cultural gap was too big. Around this time quite a few Indian contractors made their own way over and as a rule were very good.

Outsourcing to Eastern Europeans came along a bit later.

[NotAllThere]

Accenture have taken my work away. It's not the the managers at client don't want me to do the work, but they've got written into their targets "must use accenture". So I'm doing a handover. At least, that's what is supposed to be happening. I've kicked off the process, and handed over to accenture to actually manage it. The guy in charge of the handover was supposed to come back to me Monday last week. I'm still waiting...

But I'm polite and helpful. It's not the accenture people's fault personally.

Mind you, handovers are usually a waste of time. But they make managers feel better. "Oh no, he's leaving and taking all the experience and knowledge with him, we must do something. Ooo. A handover. That's something. Let's do it!"

[SussexSeagull]

Accenture have taken my work away. It's not the the managers at client don't want me to do the work, but they've got written into their targets "must use accenture". So I'm doing a handover. At least, that's what is supposed to be happening. I've kicked off the process, and handed over to accenture to actually manage it. The guy in charge of the handover was supposed to come back to me Monday last week. I'm still waiting...

But I'm polite and helpful. It's not the accenture people's fault personally.

Mind you, handovers are usually a waste of time. But they make managers feel better. "Oh no, he's leaving and taking all the experience and knowledge with him, we must do something. Ooo. A handover. That's something. Let's do it!"

Managers who should know better seem to think you can put what you do in a box for someone else to pick up.

[Old Greg]

Accenture have taken my work away. It's not the the managers at client don't want me to do the work, but they've got written into their targets "must use accenture". So I'm doing a handover. At least, that's what is supposed to be happening. I've kicked off the process, and handed over to accenture to actually manage it. The guy in charge of the handover was supposed to come back to me Monday last week. I'm still waiting...

But I'm polite and helpful. It's not the accenture people's fault personally.

Mind you, handovers are usually a waste of time. But they make managers feel better. "Oh no, he's leaving and taking all the experience and knowledge with him, we must do something. Ooo. A handover. That's something. Let's do it!"

Handovers are important as they give the new person the opportunity to blame the outgoing person for everything and create a low baseline against which to perform.