How can we fight back against Infosys, TCS and other Indian consultancies?

[BlasterBates]

Where I work they did exactly that (switch to InfoSys) on the advice of HR (and InfoSys senior contract management).

The fact is that contractors on PAYE pose no risk to the company, so there must be other reasons.

[DimPrawn]

The fact is that contractors on PAYE pose no risk to the company, so there must be other reasons.

Contractors on PAYE are via an umbrella company. InfoSys are the preferred supplier of off payroll staff, therefore Contractors had to leave or take direct employment option (at lower pay).

Was a simple decision for the company.

[BlasterBates]

Contractors on PAYE are via an umbrella company. InfoSys are the preferred supplier of off payroll staff, therefore Contractors had to leave or take direct employment option (at lower pay).

Was a simple decision for the company.

If contractors are refusing permie positions then it demonstrates that the market is bouyant, because they can get better rates elsewhere.

[DimPrawn]

If contractors are refusing permie positions then it demonstrates that the market is bouyant, because they can get better rates elsewhere.

I think I'm kind of wasting my time here. You don't see it and don't want to see it. I think you fit the old phrase "If you aren't part of the solution, you are probably part of the problem".

[LondonManc]

The fact is that contractors on PAYE pose no risk to the company, so there must be other reasons.

Yes, the fact that HMRC guidelines have dictated that companies must carry out due diligence and assess the IR35 status of every contract on its merits rather than the contractor declaring its status. The client cannot be bothered if they have 2000 contractors on site and therefore to save time and effort they push everyone through an entity like Infosys. Combine that with the lure of much cheapness and why wouldn't they?

[DimPrawn]

Yes, the fact that HMRC guidelines have dictated that companies must carry out due diligence and assess the IR35 status of every contract on its merits rather than the contractor declaring its status. The client cannot be bothered if they have 2000 contractors on site and therefore to save time and effort they push everyone through an entity like Infosys. Combine that with the lure of much cheapness and why wouldn't they?

Thankyou, exactly this. It's big client co, which used to have hundreds if not thousands of contractors. No way their risk and finance department was going to do this due diligence, and HR are as lazy and inept as ****. InfoSys called the senior management and presented a solution to short term onshore resourcing.

Result, goodbye UK IT contractors.

[LondonManc]

Thankyou, exactly this. It's big client co, which used to have hundreds if not thousands of contractors. No way their risk and finance department was going to do this due diligence, and HR are as lazy and inept as ****. InfoSys called the senior management and presented a solution to short term onshore resourcing.

Result, goodbye UK IT contractors.

Until Infosys mob invariably fail to deliver. It's part of the contractor cycle, a bit like when companies were outsourcing IT departments pre-Wipro days them brought IT departments back inside when costs invariably spiralled. There's a chance here for Resource Solutions, Adecco, etc to step up and manage IR35 contract decisions for the client (albeit having to take responsibility for them and demonstrate that the value v risk is better than Infosys et al).

[DimPrawn]

Until Infosys mob invariably fail to deliver. It's part of the contractor cycle, a bit like when companies were outsourcing IT departments pre-Wipro days them brought IT departments back inside when costs invariably spiralled. There's a chance here for Resource Solutions, Adecco, etc to step up and manage IR35 contract decisions for the client (albeit having to take responsibility for them and demonstrate that the value v risk is better than Infosys et al).

They do fail to deliver, constantly. Then the client co management fly to India for make or break meetings with InfoSys senior management. InfoSys fly in some better people, change processes and procedures. Then after a few months, once the long term contract is renewed, they pull the good people, put in a load of inexperienced muppets, ignore the service terms and carry on. Rinse and repeat.

[SussexSeagull]

If clients had wanted to push contractors out the door and get in InfoSys or similar they could have done it years ago. As most clients have just stopped using PSC Contractors and moved to inside IR35 as opposed to assessing every contract I am not sure the new paradigm is going to force them into the hands of the consultancies.

It makes us less competitive, which is good for them, but I am not convinced it is a knockout blow.

[BlasterBates]

Yes, the fact that HMRC guidelines have dictated that companies must carry out due diligence and assess the IR35 status of every contract on its merits rather than the contractor declaring its status. The client cannot be bothered if they have 2000 contractors on site and therefore to save time and effort they push everyone through an entity like Infosys. Combine that with the lure of much cheapness and why wouldn't they?

If a client wants to simply go through InfoySys they could have done that without the IR35 change. It's just nonsense to suggest it's too much effort to do due diligence when you can simply declare it inside IR35 when you call the agent.