Outside / Inside / Umbrella / Perm or Bye!

[Lance]

You need to have a good read around the forums, particularly the IR35 reform section. You're post covers a number of issues which need a host of complex answers.

A massive number of people hit exactly the same situation in Feb/March ahead of the failed implementation in April so we've gone over this in great detail many times.

You need to cover the IR35 aspect, the future, the issues with not opening a LTD 2 years after shutting down, retrospective investigation, what's happening next April.

Far to much to go through with you in one post so you really need to go look at the other part of the forum and read up. Then apply this to your personal situation.

Also use the google search method by typing the following in to google changing the keywords. <search term(s)> site:contractoruk.com/forums

*your*
*too*
not woken up yet?

As to the OP's question. The worries around an investigation being triggered after April was far more likely to be as a result of HMRC knowing that client A had used the CEST tool and made a formal determination. If your client isnlt doing that, but is just refusing to deal with any LTDs any more then I think it's a low risk for you. More importantly..... It's only going to cost you 6 months of tax and I can't see HMRC pursuing that if you have the paperwork all in line.

[northernladuk]

*your*
*too*
not woken up yet?

As to the OP's question. The worries around an investigation being triggered after April was far more likely to be as a result of HMRC knowing that client A had used the CEST tool and made a formal determination. If your client isnlt doing that, but is just refusing to deal with any LTDs any more then I think it's a low risk for you. More importantly..... It's only going to cost you 6 months of tax and I can't see HMRC pursuing that if you have the paperwork all in line.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. My audio note taker and typist have both been duly sacked. Lets see if the butler can do a better job.

[Lance]

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. My audio note taker and typist have both been duly sacked. Lets see if the butler can do a better job.

sack him as well

[GhostofTarbera]

Thoughts on this required on risks etc. as have a month to make a decision.

So have been working for Client co. since March. Initially they did a review of the contract with EY and stated I am Outside. Qdos did a review of contract and working practices and also said as good as it can get as Outside etc. etc.

Things are going well, project etc. interesting work and full autonomy.

The Client co. now have stated that as of September they will not engage Ltd. Co's anymore. I was told today that they want to extend me as the project is underway and I have managed to get it back on track where they were struggling to before and that what I was brought in to resolve is looking good and they would like me to drag it over the line.

I have been told I need to go Umbrella, Perm or leave.

My question is...

If I go Umbrella I will probably wind my company down as this seems to be a good option with the way the market is looking and try and claim entrepreneurs relief. I am concerned would this trigger an investigation as despite the Client co review and my own stating it looks Outside it does not mean anything if the companies out there are less inclined to engage that way. Any thoughts or advice on what to do? It seems like to use a Ltd co is a battle these days and might be worth just being grateful for the work and moving on. It is just whether I can get relief and make the most of the new world.

When is the project go live ? Before March 2021 ?


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[Hawkeye]

As to the OP's question. The worries around an investigation being triggered after April was far more likely to be as a result of HMRC knowing that client A had used the CEST tool and made a formal determination. If your client isnlt doing that, but is just refusing to deal with any LTDs any more then I think it's a low risk for you. More importantly..... It's only going to cost you 6 months of tax and I can't see HMRC pursuing that if you have the paperwork all in line.

They used EY and sent me the Outside determination. So I do think risk is probably lower.

Speaking with people at Client Co. he thinks that asking for a rate increase won't be acceptable it is a straight swap or aurevoir. Am still going to make my case either way.

[Hawkeye]

When is the project go live ? Before March 2021 ?


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We should wrap up by December this year so 2020. So there is no risk to them till 2021 April as far as I can see. Their stance is no Ltd's by Sept.

[Lance]

We should wrap up by December this year so 2020. So there is no risk to them till 2021 April as far as I can see. Their stance is no Ltd's by Sept.

it doesn't sound like there's any risk to get worried about.
I'd not make the decision on an MVL just yet though. Who knows what's round the corner.
And if you don't have any work, 7.5% dividend tax is less tax than ER anyway.

[elsergiovolador]

This is true. I have their emails stating they have reviewed the role as Outside and they have reviewed others as Inside so it was a determination on a per contract basis. Also, I have my own assessments to take to court so lots of evidence. That is also true. They are not determining inside they say they are changing how they engage going forward due to what the government is stipulating as they as so many are scared someone will come knocking on their door.

The question is whether the "outside" arrangement has been created for the purpose of avoiding on tax. Given that the client wants to issue an "inside" contract, HMRC could say that previous outside contracts were not legitimate arrangements, as you could have been working "inside" from the beginning.

[Paralytic]

Given that the client wants to issue an "inside" contract...

Where did the OP indicate that?

[elsergiovolador]

Where did the OP indicate that?

There:

I have been told I need to go Umbrella, Perm or leave.