Any clue how many of your fellow contractors are going inside?

[BritishLad88]

This is insane behaviour, they are risking an almighty and no doubt ruinous tax bill if they can't go a month or two on the bench. I echo other comments, these permietractors have ruined it for everyone else. I don't think I've stayed longer than 18 months anywhere just to be on the safe side, but 10 years? 90% of permies wouldn't have stayed somewhere that long.

I was thinking that too.

These days, permies are job hopping far more constant than contractors are which is kinda ironic

[oliverson]

If that was true there'd be a time limit for a contract in the IR35 legislation. There isn't.

There's a 2 year limit on expenses. All they have to do is apply that thinking to determine between contract/permies. It really is that simple isn't it? Hell, make it 18 months. How can you be permanent if you are moving from client to client every 18 months.

Dictionary definition of the word 'permanent':

lasting or intended to last or remain unchanged indefinitely.

[LetterBox]

I really do hope hmrc decide to investigate them. Disgusting human beings, that's what these "contractors" are..

What kind of contractor stays at the same place for 10+ years. They're the reason hmrc have started this whole ir35 thing in the first place.

Two different things, business found that they could avoid having to pay a persons NIC contribution if they hired them as a service (contractor), this caused IR35 creation from the government.

The reason the 10+ year people are still there is the lack of government policing of their own policy.

[moggy]

One is outside, the other hasn't made a determination. Both avoid the German 183 day tax law. Beats sitting around waiting for the smelly stuff to hit the fan.

my understanding is money earned in Germany must be taxed in Germany from day 1. You will need a German tax specialist for sure.

[PCTNN]

Two different things, business found that they could avoid having to pay a persons NIC contribution if they hired them as a service (contractor), this caused IR35 creation from the government.

The reason the 10+ year people are still there is the lack of government policing of their own policy.

Yes, I agree.

Hmrc is to blame as well for not raising the issue sooner. They have now, fortunately.

[Lockhouse]

Currently going through a IR35 assessment process at my current client. Assuming it's a stitch up as it's a three way completion between myself, my client point of contact and the client HR. Lots of questions have been pre-completed and I can't see how they've been answered. Not happy and have made my feelings known.

[Snooky]

I really do hope hmrc decide to investigate them. Disgusting human beings, that's what these "contractors" are..

What kind of contractor stays at the same place for 10+ years. They're the reason hmrc have started this whole ir35 thing in the first place.

I find the hypocrisy most amusing.

If IR35 wasn't a thing, it would be a badge of honour for most contractors that they'd had regular renewals from their client, and the only reason people would move on would be that the client no longer needed them, they could get more money or they were bored and wanted something different.

I know this because I was contracting before IR35 actually was a thing, and this was the almost universal attitude among contractors.

But now people are apparently "disgusting human beings" (a term I'd more normally associate with rapist, murderers, paedophiles and the like) for trying to prolong a business arrangement that's beneficial to both parties due to some arbitrary time constraint that, incidentally, has absolutely no basis in employment law.

Give your head a little wobble.

[dx4100]

Current contract ending in two and half weeks so started looking and the general conversation with the agents is contracting is dead - but here are some perm opportunities a lot of contractors are already applying for...

It feels like the ship has already sailed on jumping early back into perm (not much interest anyway) so I am playing the long game and hoping the market settles down.

[Cirrus]

But now people are apparently "disgusting human beings"

It's all part of a pervasive superiority complex. Most contractors I've ever met are down to earth and realistic. However there are - on here - a little sect who use the term permietractor. What they actually mean is other contractors are of lesser value than them whereas they are rather like a cross between IBM, The Church of England and Banksy. They never do anything that resembles what and how a permie would do/work. They dance in and out of the client without anyone knowing except to see their stunning deliverables perfectly fashioned from secret materials using mysterious techniques. Yeh - right...

It's just like Brexit. For over three years I've asked everyone to name one advantage/trade deal/freedom but there has been total silence. In all my working life I've never seen a contractor who doesn't do the same sorts of things as a permie. I've often taken over a programme from one permie and later handed it on to another. I'm sure it happens but the chances of the permietractor-calling classes being involved, I'm afraid are next to zip. It's people bulltulipting to make their lives seem more important.

[PlanB]

It's all part of a pervasive superiority complex. Most contractors I've ever met are down to earth and realistic. However there are - on here - a little sect who use the term permietractor. What they actually mean is other contractors are of lesser value than them whereas they are rather like a cross between IBM, The Church of England and Banksy. They never do anything that resembles what and how a permie would do/work. They dance in and out of the client without anyone knowing except to see their stunning deliverables perfectly fashioned from secret materials using mysterious techniques. Yeh - right...

It's just like Brexit. For over three years I've asked everyone to name one advantage/trade deal/freedom but there has been total silence. In all my working life I've never seen a contractor who doesn't do the same sorts of things as a permie. I've often taken over a programme from one permie and later handed it on to another. I'm sure it happens but the chances of the permietractor-calling classes being involved, I'm afraid are next to zip. It's people bulltulipting to make their lives seem more important.

There are obvious extremes to everyones contractor experience, to speak in absolute terms makes no sense. To move from one project to another at the same company really shouldn't be an issue, I have done it myself but to do it again and again for years and decades on end screams permanent employee. These are exactly the people who put HMRCs eye of Sauron on contractors and they deserve every bit of our contempt.

I also find it incredulous that after a decade of pulling down a hefty wedge contracting at a bank these individuals can not contemplate going anywhere else and have put an even bigger target on their back by moving inside (like the permies they were all along).