Originally posted by base
View Post
- Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
- Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!
IR35 appeal success
Collapse
X
-
'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!! -
Originally posted by northernladuk View PostKinda exonerates us all really doesn't it?
The quote to which you refer alludes to the case law that SDC, specifically the "how" element of control, is less important for a skilled professional, which is essentially the opposite of what you're saying. However, even that isn't straightforward. A skilled professional among skilled professionals can be controlled on the "how", as well as other elements.
IR35 has always been an exercise in balance and subjectivity. If that's your gripe, I'm afraid you're going to be angry indefinitely
This case, as with many cases, appears quite finely balanced to me, but it's also clear how the case was won, namely lack of SDC. There's nothing particularly magical about it; their judgement in the round was that a sufficient degree of SDC was not present.Comment
-
Originally posted by Hobosapien View PostThat's why they're now changing the rules so the client determines IR35 status, currently in public sector but likely also in private sector next April.Comment
-
This was a construction worker, wasnt it? Yeah, I know all about the pillars and principles being the same etc but I really wonder if he had been an IT contractor whether the ultimate decision would have been the same.Comment
-
Originally posted by northernladuk View PostI don't agree. They were but not from MDCM. Dress it up as you want but that was the stance of the engager.
If the contractor had been represented by someone like Kate Cottrill, methinks she'd have challenged the engager on that point, and asked them if the agency had sent a substitute who just happened to be provided by MDCM, would they have rejected the substitute or not? If so, why, since they accepted other substitutes? If not, then there was a right of substitution.
The client didn't think through what he was saying. HMRC was happy to have his initial statement stand. The contractor was representing himself and lost a chance there. If someone sharp had been questioning the client, the right of substitution might have stood in this case as well.Comment
-
Originally posted by SueEllen View PostWhy are you upset with him? HMRC screwed up their argument.
If you, I or most people here ended up with an investigation it wouldn't get as far as going to a tribunal.
What are the "lost opportunity" costs for a contractor involved in an investigation? Seems it's largely a war of attrition, and HMRC has the capacity to outlast any contractor by tying them up in red tape.
As a contractor, you may ultimately win (and even withstand "appeals" from HMRC against the verdict) but it'd be a Pyrrhic victory if you've not been able to work (i.e earn money) for a significant chunk of time whilst the (protracted) investigation was ongoing.
I think *this* is the real thing contractors should fear, far more than the result itself. After all, those lost opportunity costs could actually amount to more money than that "unpaid tax" HMRC is going after you for.Comment
-
Originally posted by billybiro View PostIndeed. It may not ever be about the final verdict, win or lose for HMRC.
What are the "lost opportunity" costs for a contractor involved in an investigation? Seems it's largely a war of attrition, and HMRC has the capacity to outlast any contractor by tying them up in red tape.
As a contractor, you may ultimately win (and even withstand "appeals" from HMRC against the verdict) but it'd be a Pyrrhic victory if you've not been able to work (i.e earn money) for a significant chunk of time whilst the (protracted) investigation was ongoing.
I think *this* is the real thing contractors should fear, far more than the result itself. After all, those lost opportunity costs could actually amount to more money than that "unpaid tax" HMRC is going after you for.Last edited by SueEllen; 27 March 2018, 12:01."You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JRComment
-
Originally posted by billybiro View PostAs a contractor, you may ultimately win (and even withstand "appeals" from HMRC against the verdict) but it'd be a Pyrrhic victory if you've not been able to work (i.e earn money) for a significant chunk of time whilst the (protracted) investigation was ongoing.
I think *this* is the real thing contractors should fear, far more than the result itself. After all, those lost opportunity costs could actually amount to more money than that "unpaid tax" HMRC is going after you for.Comment
-
Originally posted by northernladuk View PostI'm not upset with him. Dunno, just felt annoyed after reading through it. I'll have a look again tomorrow.⭐️ Gold Star ContractorComment
-
Originally posted by washed up contractor View PostThis was a construction worker, wasnt it? Yeah, I know all about the pillars and principles being the same etc but I really wonder if he had been an IT contractor whether the ultimate decision would have been the same."You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JRComment
- Home
- News & Features
- First Timers
- IR35 / S660 / BN66
- Employee Benefit Trusts
- Agency Workers Regulations
- MSC Legislation
- Limited Companies
- Dividends
- Umbrella Company
- VAT / Flat Rate VAT
- Job News & Guides
- Money News & Guides
- Guide to Contracts
- Successful Contracting
- Contracting Overseas
- Contractor Calculators
- MVL
- Contractor Expenses
Advertisers
Contractor Services
CUK News
- Streamline Your Retirement with iSIPP: A Solution for Contractor Pensions Sep 1 09:13
- Making the most of pension lump sums: overview for contractors Sep 1 08:36
- Umbrella company tribunal cases are opening up; are your wages subject to unlawful deductions, too? Aug 31 08:38
- Contractors, relabelling 'labour' as 'services' to appear 'fully contracted out' won't dupe IR35 inspectors Aug 31 08:30
- How often does HMRC check tax returns? Aug 30 08:27
- Work-life balance as an IT contractor: 5 top tips from a tech recruiter Aug 30 08:20
- Autumn Statement 2023 tipped to prioritise mental health, in a boost for UK workplaces Aug 29 08:33
- Final reminder for contractors to respond to the umbrella consultation (closing today) Aug 29 08:09
- Top 5 most in demand cyber security contract roles Aug 25 08:38
- Changes to the right to request flexible working are incoming, but how will contractors be affected? Aug 24 08:25
Comment