Abbey WILL (possibly) cover for retrospective PS IR35 claims

[psychocandy]

What is meant by "retrospective" in this case?

Are HMRC saying they will investigate pre-2017, or post-2017 in the future?

I'm not working in PS, just interested at HMRC's alternative facts.

Eh? HMRC havent said anything yet.

Retrospective - meaning if you've been at a client for some time and been working as outside IR35. Then post april the client declares you inside IR35.

[psychocandy]

And your title is inaccurate.

I think that 'WILL' is negated by ''(possibly)'.

WILL = a very positive yes.

(possibly) = a rather meh maybe...

They will definitely do it if your contract passes the test.

[psychocandy]

TBH, I find it extremely odd that you would think any different. If you can fully demonstrate that your WP are outside now, then you're currently outside, and Abbey can confidently insure themselves against the small risk of their assessment being wrong. However, let's not pretend that an investigation would be fun or short, because the client may not be onside if the WP haven't changed (and their assessment is inside post April). Also, based on your previous posts, you may have a job convincing them about your WP currently... What are you going to do if they say you've been inside all along?

EXACTLY. But if Abbey accept and you pay for the insurance then all you have to worry about is April 2017 onwards. Even if you lose Abbey will pay.

[MrMarkyMark]

EXACTLY. But if Abbey accept and you pay for the insurance then all you have to worry about is April 2017 onwards. Even if you lose Abbey will pay.

Sounds like you have decided to stay on, then

[jamesbrown]

EXACTLY. But if Abbey accept and you pay for the insurance then all you have to worry about is April 2017 onwards. Even if you lose Abbey will pay.

I'm talking about Abbey, not HMRC. What are you going to do if Abbey say you're currently inside? I assume you've had some form of review already but, unless that was done by Abbey, they may not agree with that assessment when they start asking detailed questions about your actual WP. Anyway, it doesn't remove all worry. It's going to be a stressful process, and there are always conditions attached to reviews and insurance. It seems as though you're reverting to type and ignoring all the advice you've received and doing whatever it takes to convince yourself that everything will be fine.....good luck

[psychocandy]

Sounds like you have decided to stay on, then

Mr MM. You're making a lot of assumptions here. Lets have a little test and see what you think is the best course of action.

1) Throw a wobbler. Listen to idiots on here. Tell client no way are you extending - without knowing the full facts.

2) Chase agency, consultancy, client for an answer to IR35 status post- April. Apply for non-PS gigs. Investigate options such as Abbey Tax. Then make a decision when you have to based on how things stand/options at that time.

FYI - I'm currently going with option 2 if you don't mind.

[psychocandy]

I'm talking about Abbey, not HMRC. What are you going to do if Abbey say you're currently inside? I assume you've had some form of review already but, unless that was done by Abbey, they may not agree with that assessment when they start asking detailed questions about your actual WP. Anyway, it doesn't remove all worry. It's going to be a stressful process, and there are always conditions attached to reviews and insurance. It seems as though you're reverting to type and ignoring all the advice you've received and doing whatever it takes to convince yourself that everything will be fine.....good luck

Yes, correct. Contract was initially reviewed by QDOS and aware that Abbey may not see it that way. And yes if that happens they won't offer insurance.

Not quite sure why people on this forum think theres an issue with finding out these things? See my last post.

Its an OPTION thats all. It might be applicable to someone or it might not. Agreed that even if is applicable its hassle.

I've got colleagues here who are staying on regardless. If I was them I'd definitely be getting this insurance (if I could).

[MrMarkyMark]

Mr MM. You're making a lot of assumptions here. Lets have a little test and see what you think is the best course of action.

1) Throw a wobbler. Listen to idiots on here. Tell client no way are you extending - without knowing the full facts.

2) Chase agency, consultancy, client for an answer to IR35 status post- April. Apply for non-PS gigs. Investigate options such as Abbey Tax. Then make a decision when you have to based on how things stand/options at that time.

FYI - I'm currently going with option 2 if you don't mind.

The only assumption I'm making is you're a bit of a numpty who cannot make clear decisions based on reality.

Ultimately, I'm pretty sure you will be sitting there like a Rabbit in headlights waiting for HMRC to come and run you down.

[northernladuk]

This insurance thing doesn't sound right to me at all. Massive focus on PS, so many unknowns, threat of retrospective action, many contractors have only worked in the PS... And you can take some insurance out and you are OK?

Doesn't sound right to me at all. I am not quite understanding why the Abbey et al are not changing their position slightly to make sure they are protected to some extent. Just looking at the number of institutionalized contractors that don't understand all this and just plodding on in to a massive car crash I can't see how the insurers are happy to take them under their wings for a couple of hundred quid.

You'll struggle to insure your house if you live on a flood plain and it starts raining hard.....

Question to you PC... When is 'at that time?'

[malvolio]

AFAIK Abbey will only give you insurance under Survive35 if they are happy that the contract is outside IR35, which is not unreasonable. In effect they are insuring themselves against getting it wrong and having to pay the tax for you. You are not being insured against having to pay taxes due under a valid IR35-caught contract.

So the only defence I can see if you have to take or extend a PS contract is to get it marked as being outside IR35 - and that means (a) you and your client have to understand the legislation properly and (b) you have to be taken on with a proper contract, a clear SoA and not through CLOne.