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Working at risk

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    Working at risk

    I have worked for a client for about a year now. Good relationship. I put in the effort, client seem to be happy. Originally a 3 month contract, then extended to 6. Then new contract via G-Cloud for further 6 months of work which ends tomorrow. Client have said they are raising a purchase order to procure another number of days under the extant contract. Trouble is, that PO has not yet been received. The message to say this was coming was only received on Tuesday. My experience of PS procurement depts is that things don't always move quickly! I am confident that everything is in order but trying to decide whether to drive 170 miles next Monday morning to work at risk if no PO is in place by then. Who has been in this situation and what did you do? My gut is telling me to get my arse over there on Monday.

    #2
    What do your insurance T&Cs say about being on site with no contract?

    Apart from that it's up to you. What else are you going to do? I'm not so sure about the working at risk. I'd be surprised if they will let you on site without a contract in place. Worst they can do is just turn you around at the front desk.
    Last edited by northernladuk; 26 January 2017, 20:21.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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      #3
      Protect yourself, while (being seen to be) doing everything in your power to get it sorted. You can't be working without a contract, but you can explain this to whoever is going to be most affected by it. Tell them you don't believe you're covered by your business insurance if you're out of contract (It's probably not true, but enough people believe it) if you want an excuse.

      I've been there a number of things and I just treat is a day or two off - as soon as the PO is there, I get on the road to make sure I'm ready to go in the morning.

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        #4
        It's not just your insurance that might not cover you - your client's insurance may also be invalidated by having out-of-contract personnel on site. I've worked a couple of places where that was the case.
        I did a stroll around Windsor on 2 Oct for Alzheimer's Society. You can chuck me a few quid here if you like: https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/lmallen-1

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          #5
          Originally posted by ladymuck View Post
          It's not just your insurance that might not cover you - your client's insurance may also be invalidated by having out-of-contract personnel on site. I've worked a couple of places where that was the case.
          PS departments often self insure and are allowed to by law as ultimately the taxpayer, us, pays.

          I only know because I was looking at something my council was responsible for, and also when I had one PS client I was finding out what happened if you got run over in the car park.

          Edited to say: The latter was because I was interested to see what the difference would be compared to a previous private sector client where it actually happened.
          Last edited by SueEllen; 26 January 2017, 20:57.
          "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

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            #6
            Originally posted by vwdan View Post
            Protect yourself, while (being seen to be) doing everything in your power to get it sorted. You can't be working without a contract, but you can explain this to whoever is going to be most affected by it. Tell them you don't believe you're covered by your business insurance if you're out of contract (It's probably not true, but enough people believe it) if you want an excuse.

            I've been there a number of things and I just treat is a day or two off - as soon as the PO is there, I get on the road to make sure I'm ready to go in the morning.
            ^^^ This

            I know when I've queried things with my insurance the person at the other end of the phone cannot clarify anything it has to go to someone in the back office to sort out, and it's only given to them if it's urgent.
            "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

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              #7
              Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
              What do your insurance T&Cs say about being on site with no contract?
              I firstly need to understand whether I still have a contract. I am subcontracting to a supplier on G-Cloud and whilst that supplier will continue to have a contract with the client next week, it is not so clear whether my contract with the supplier ceases to exists once the set amount of days in the original purchase order is consumed. It might be that my contract still exists but there is no purchase order for any days work. I've asked the G-Cloud supplier for clarity.

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                #8
                Read the contract in detail - hopefully you find that you are operating under a contract for services or a master services agreement that covers a longer period than the purchase order but requires a purchase order to enable invoicing coverage. In which case you could happily stay on site and be under contract. The risk is you may not be able to get the PO agreed and even if you do, they may not be able to raise it with retrospective dates. In which case any activity prior to the date of signature may not be recovered via invoicing.
                Its a risk, consider the options. Could you advise the client that you will remain working but off-site till the PO is in place?

                PS: If you have a contract with a specified end date AND for a specified value, the the contract expires upon reaching the contractual end date OR the contractual value being reached.
                Last edited by Works For Beer; 26 January 2017, 23:39. Reason: PS Addition

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Works For Beer View Post
                  Read the contract in detail - hopefully you find that you are operating under a contract for services or a master services agreement that covers a longer period than the purchase order but requires a purchase order to enable invoicing coverage. In which case you could happily stay on site and be under contract. The risk is you may not be able to get the PO agreed and even if you do, they may not be able to raise it with retrospective dates. In which case any activity prior to the date of signature may not be recovered via invoicing.
                  Its a risk, consider the options. Could you advise the client that you will remain working but off-site till the PO is in place?

                  PS: If you have a contract with a specified end date AND for a specified value, the the contract expires upon reaching the contractual end date OR the contractual value being reached.
                  This is good. I am operating under a contract for services with a master services agreement that goes to summer this year. The contract for services does not specify an end date nor does it specify a value. The contract includes a schedule which has to exist in order to create a contractual obligation for the supplier to pay me if I do the work. The schedule has a max number of days which are used up today. It sounds like the contractual side of things will be OK and the risk is just as you say; potentially not getting paid for work carried out. I'm waiting for some clarity from the G-Cloud supplier and hope to hear more today.

                  Thanks for your help (and the others that replied)

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Gomez View Post
                    This is good. I am operating under a contract for services with a master services agreement that goes to summer this year. The contract for services does not specify an end date nor does it specify a value. The contract includes a schedule which has to exist in order to create a contractual obligation for the supplier to pay me if I do the work. The schedule has a max number of days which are used up today. It sounds like the contractual side of things will be OK and the risk is just as you say; potentially not getting paid for work carried out. I'm waiting for some clarity from the G-Cloud supplier and hope to hear more today.

                    Thanks for your help (and the others that replied)
                    I agree. This is quite a common scenario, and your analysis is almost certainly correct in that context, i.e. the only risk is not getting paid without a schedule/PO for the additional T&M.

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