New to contracting - notice question

**FrontEnder** · 12 September 2016, 12:11

You've learned the hard way an important point that makes a contractor different to a permie - you basically don't have a notice period. The client can give you your notice, but it's almost certain you'll have a clause that states they aren't obliged to provide you work, and another that says you're only to be paid for work completed (documented by an approved timesheet).

So it's a case of "We're giving you your 2 weeks notice. but there's not work for you for the next 2 weeks".

Originally posted by Alex B View Post

So, to recap, when was my contract actually terminated? Was it the day I left the Client or when I received the termination letter 3 months later?

It's irrelevant. You only did 2 weeks work, so that's all you can invoice for.

Originally posted by Alex B View Post

And can they get away with not paying me the 4 weeks by now saying that I was negligent in some way?

They're not getting away with anything. You didn't do any work in those 4 weeks, so why should they pay you for it?

**northernladuk** · 12 September 2016, 12:11

Originally posted by Alex B View Post

Hi everyone,

I started contracting about a year and a half ago, so I'm still a newbie so go easy on me!

18 months contracting is hardly a newbie

A contract earlier this year went as follows. Got a 12 month gig, turned up, had a good 2 weeks then the client decided to restructure the project and get more internal people moved in. Long story short they ended up not needing me. Lots of apologies and thanks for a what I'd done so far, which they were pleased with.

Yep happens. It's what we do.

The notice period in the contract was 4 weeks. They didn't want me to work it as the new project manager wanted a fresh start with just the people who were going to remain on the team. I left with 2 signed timesheets and the understanding that these and the notice period would be paid. In further correspondence with the agency I was asked to create an invoice for the lot which I did.

That is where your understanding would be wrong. There will also be a clause in your contract that says you get paid upon receipt of a signed timesheet. You have two, you will get paid for those. You don't get paid for the days you don't work.

A couple of months went by and nothing. I contacted them of course but no one would take my calls. Then I had an email from their legal team saying that they can't pay me anything because the invoice is incorrect - the client hasn't authorised the 4 weeks notice and they have no obligation to pay it. They said they will pay a corrected invoice for the 2 weeks. They also sent me a termination notice dated that day saying they were terminating the contract signed in February. So my first question is, given that the date on the termination is over 3 months from the date of the contract, does that mean I wasn't actually 'let go' of for 3 months??

Can't really make that out but the bottom line is you can bill for the days you work. That's all you need to know.

And can they get away without paying notice, which is all I wanted. I don't have signed timesheets for the notice 4 weeks because I wasn't there and on their systems to have them done. Also, the termination part says I was sacked due to negligence, which was news to me! No one sacked me and the new project manager said he'd have me back as soon as something came up.

Not paying the notice period when you don't work is covered in your contract under the no pay without signed timesheet clause. Using a reason for instant termination is pretty bloody silly. It's just the agent/client trying to be smart and not understanding their own contract. They should also know that you don't get paid for time you don't work. The smart way would be to invoke 4 weeks notice, let you work 2, ask you not to come in for two and let your notice expire as per the contract. All above board and covered by the contract so no arguments.

Where does all this leave me? I was under the impression that I had to give 4 weeks notice to leave and they had to give me 4 weeks notice to get rid of me. Nothing about the quality of my work was mentioned while I was there and I know there was nothing wrong with what I did. There is only so much negligence you can be accused of in two weeks anyway. I waited a week and a half for my work laptop and login anyway, and during that time I did what I could to familiarize myself with the project and went to meetings and so on.

I have very little in writing, just a few emails between me and the agency talking about how disappointed I was and how I was hoping to get more work with the Client because the work was interesting and I hoped that they'd be true to their word and have me back at some point, once all the restructuring was finished. And then them asking me to create an invoice for the two weeks plus notice.

So, to recap, when was my contract actually terminated? Was it the day I left the Client or when I received the termination letter 3 months later? And can they get away with not paying me the 4 weeks by now saying that I was negligent in some way?

I opt out, if that makes a difference.

Thanks in advance.

Not really worth going in the detail above. As I said you get paid for the days you work and that's about it.

Pretty common thing this. Try using the search term as described here.

http://forums.contractoruk.com/welco...uk-forums.html

Use the term notice period or something similar. You'll see 100's of threads about the same thing and advice tends to be the same.

Some will say stick the notice period to them and see if they pay but it looks like you've done this and they won't so unless you want to try going legal you are done.

**missinggreenfields** · 12 September 2016, 12:29

Originally posted by Alex B View Post

So, to recap, when was my contract actually terminated? Was it the day I left the Client or when I received the termination letter 3 months later?

Neither.

It is when the agency (the party with whom you have the contract) gives you notice in line with the contract, and that notice period has passed. It is not when the client tells you anything, because you don't have a contractual relationship with the client. Looks like everyone handled the termination badly / wrongly in this case.

Originally posted by Alex B View Post

And can they get away with not paying me the 4 weeks by now saying that I was negligent in some way?

What does the contract say about their right to terminate? What does the contract say about your right to be paid? What does the contract say about their right to withhold payment?

In many contracts (not all), there is a clause which details that you will only be paid for the hours that you work, or hours that are accompanied by an approved timesheet. Check carefully what the contract says and see whether you have the right to charge for the notice period, and whether they have the right to withhold any payment.

I think you'll be lucky to get the notice period paid because you didn't work - the excuse that they are now using is irrelevant. I would:

a) issue a new invoice for the two weeks period that you are owed for. There is no dispute over that amount, so they cannot legally not pay that. If they are late then charge interest and penalties
b) issue a new invoice for the notice period. That is in dispute, but get the invoice in so that you have an amount that you are arguing over
c) If it's a reasonable amount of money, take professional advice (rather than asking on a forum). If it's not a reasonable amount of money, then chalk it up to experience
d) If you don't get it paid, make sure to account for it as a bad debt / loss in your annual accounts

Good luck

Edit - bear in mind that if you issue the invoice then you will need to include VAT and may need to pay HMRC the amount due to them depending on what accounting method you use. You can then reclaim that amount back via your VAT return once the debt is at least 6 months old (but less than 4 years 6 months)

**Alex B** · 12 September 2016, 12:34

Thanks for the replies.

I'm trying to decide if I should try the legal route but don't want to bother if it's going to be a waste of time.

I remember a solicitor telling me ages ago that contract law says contracts have to be fair, so that's something I'm trying to understand - how is it a fair contract that says they have to give me 4 weeks notice if another part of it says that effectively they don't. And what would have happened if there had been no restructuring but I got a better offer elsewhere with an immediate start and left without giving them notice?

It's not that I want to get paid for not doing anything, but I was there and ready to work and would have gladly worked the 4 weeks. They didn't want me to. As I understand the notice period works both ways, for them to sort out a replacement if I leave before the 12 months and for me to get other work if they change their minds or start running out of work.

So is a 12 months contract with a 4 week notice period effectively a zero hour contract? Is this legal? And is the 4 weeks notice binding on the side of the contractor, so basically I'm working on a zero hour contract I have to give 4 weeks notice to be free of?

**northernladuk** · 12 September 2016, 12:42

Depends on the contract.. The clue is in the title of what we are

Remember the mantra 'Notice periods are for permies'

**missinggreenfields** · 12 September 2016, 12:43

Originally posted by Alex B View Post

Thanks for the replies.

I'm trying to decide if I should try the legal route but don't want to bother if it's going to be a waste of time.

I remember a solicitor telling me ages ago that contract law says contracts have to be fair, so that's something I'm trying to understand - how is it a fair contract that says they have to give me 4 weeks notice if another part of it says that effectively they don't. And what would have happened if there had been no restructuring but I got a better offer elsewhere with an immediate start and left without giving them notice?

It's not that I want to get paid for not doing anything, but I was there and ready to work and would have gladly worked the 4 weeks. They didn't want me to. As I understand the notice period works both ways, for them to sort out a replacement if I leave before the 12 months and for me to get other work if they change their minds or start running out of work.

So is a 12 months contract with a 4 week notice period effectively a zero hour contract? Is this legal? And is the 4 weeks notice binding on the side of the contractor, so basically I'm working on a zero hour contract I have to give 4 weeks notice to be free of?

The standard of fairness between a B2C and a B2B contract is significantly different, because you have the opportunity to take professional advice and to understand the consequences of what the business is agreeing to. A business also (theoretically at least) has a different level of bargaining power than a consumer, so a court would look differently if your company effectively said "we agreed this, but it's not fair" than if you were a shopper who had to agree to an unfair contract.

But you need to see what the contract says - if your business agreed a contract where you only get paid for the work that is produced, and you did no work in the last four weeks (whenever they may be), then you aren't going to get very far by trying to convince a judge that it is unfair (but you didn't realise it at the time because you didn't speak to a professional about it when you had the chance to do so).

If you have a contract where you don't get paid unless you work, then your company has effectively agreed a zero hours contract - but that's am employment term rather than a business to business contract term.

**mudskipper** · 12 September 2016, 12:45

Originally posted by Alex B View Post

Thanks for the replies.

I'm trying to decide if I should try the legal route but don't want to bother if it's going to be a waste of time.

I remember a solicitor telling me ages ago that contract law says contracts have to be fair, so that's something I'm trying to understand - how is it a fair contract that says they have to give me 4 weeks notice if another part of it says that effectively they don't. And what would have happened if there had been no restructuring but I got a better offer elsewhere with an immediate start and left without giving them notice?

It's not that I want to get paid for not doing anything, but I was there and ready to work and would have gladly worked the 4 weeks. They didn't want me to. As I understand the notice period works both ways, for them to sort out a replacement if I leave before the 12 months and for me to get other work if they change their minds or start running out of work.

So is a 12 months contract with a 4 week notice period effectively a zero hour contract? Is this legal? And is the 4 weeks notice binding on the side of the contractor, so basically I'm working on a zero hour contract I have to give 4 weeks notice to be free of?

You've hit the nail on the head - it's effectively a zero hours contract (typically - it really does depend on what your contract says). Have you read your contract? Do you have access to a legal helpline that can help you understand the clauses.

**northernladuk** · 12 September 2016, 12:50

Originally posted by mudskipper View Post

You've hit the nail on the head - it's effectively a zero hours contract (typically - it really does depend on what your contract says). Have you read your contract? Do you have access to a legal helpline that can help you understand the clauses.

This. You could also consider it as a Time & Materials contract rather than zero hours.

**Alex B** · 12 September 2016, 12:51

Originally posted by missinggreenfields View Post

Neither.

It is when the agency (the party with whom you have the contract) gives you notice in line with the contract, and that notice period has passed. It is not when the client tells you anything, because you don't have a contractual relationship with the client. Looks like everyone handled the termination badly / wrongly in this case.

Sorry if I'm being a bit stupid. The client and I parted very nicely, they were going to talk to the agency to explain everything and I contacted the agency too, to bring them up to speed. No one gave me notice as such. It was much later, over two months later and as part of the correspondence about the notice that the agency sent a letter terminating our contract. The letter is dated 3 months after the contract was signed.

Does this give me anything to go on? The contract says it must be terminated in writing.

What does the contract say about their right to terminate? What does the contract say about your right to be paid? What does the contract say about their right to withhold payment?

In many contracts (not all), there is a clause which details that you will only be paid for the hours that you work, or hours that are accompanied by an approved timesheet. Check carefully what the contract says and see whether you have the right to charge for the notice period, and whether they have the right to withhold any payment.

I think you'll be lucky to get the notice period paid because you didn't work - the excuse that they are now using is irrelevant. I would:

a) issue a new invoice for the two weeks period that you are owed for. There is no dispute over that amount, so they cannot legally not pay that. If they are late then charge interest and penalties
b) issue a new invoice for the notice period. That is in dispute, but get the invoice in so that you have an amount that you are arguing over
c) If it's a reasonable amount of money, take professional advice (rather than asking on a forum). If it's not a reasonable amount of money, then chalk it up to experience
d) If you don't get it paid, make sure to account for it as a bad debt / loss in your annual accounts

Good luck

Edit - bear in mind that if you issue the invoice then you will need to include VAT and may need to pay HMRC the amount due to them depending on what accounting method you use. You can then reclaim that amount back via your VAT return once the debt is at least 6 months old (but less than 4 years 6 months)

The contract says I need an approved timesheet to get paid. However I was not on site to obtain these and after leaving I was asked by the agency to create an invoice for the entire 6 weeks, the 2 I worked and the 4 of the notice period. This is in an email, so I do have proof that there was a lot of verbal agreement that notice would be paid. The client said this before I left and the agency confirmed it verbally, then asked by email for the invoice. Not timesheets.

Does any of this help my case?

It's a considerable amount of money and yes, I'm thinking of getting professional advice. But I found this forum and thought I'd use your combined experiences to get a feel for the situation. I don't want to throw good money after bad.

New to contracting - notice question