Reply to: New to contracting - notice question

[ShandyDrinker]

As others have said, get the invoice for the 2 weeks sorted first.

Then, I would drop the client contact a friendly email saying something like "hey remember how we agreed that the additional 4 weeks would be paid? Well, it appears the agency can't do that without signed time sheets so please can you sign time sheets for ode 4 weeks"

This should smoke out whether the agency are withholding money while still keeping it lght for now.

As others have said in some excellent points on this thread and as I have discovered previously having been in a similar situation, the contract will most likely have the clauses regarding no payment without a signed timesheet plus in some cases may say that presenting a timesheet without performing the work may be fraudulent. I was advised similarly by the IPSE tax and contract helplines. The plus point of the situation the OP found themself in is that it is good from an IR35 perspective as it shows the risks inherent in contracting.

[fidot]

As others have said, get the invoice for the 2 weeks sorted first.

Then, I would drop the client contact a friendly email saying something like "hey remember how we agreed that the additional 4 weeks would be paid? Well, it appears the agency can't do that without signed time sheets so please can you sign time sheets for ode 4 weeks"

This should smoke out whether the agency are withholding money while still keeping it lght for now.

[Scratch It]

I know and I'd do the same again in the same circumstances. I'm just explaining that all in all it feels like I've been shafted. I would have walked away with just the 2 weeks if everyone involved hadn't promised to pay the notice period. I would have still been the loser because of the rest of that contract not happening and the fact that I turned down a 3 month gig which would have probably been fine.

It would be interesting to see a judge have a say on all this. I expect most of us mostly walk away from these situations. The little guy doesn't like taking on big business and I'm in a new contract and busy (working from home today lol) so I wonder how often legal action is taken, and I'm guessing probably not very often so agencies feel on very safe ground doing whatever they want. So it may be worth having a go and hoping for a fair bloke or woman on the bench. It's not like I'm asking for anything out of the ordinary or being greedy. I took a job I know I could do well and was prepared to give them the 12 months they signed me up for. Their needs changed, I get it. But that's what the notice period should be for. If the contract is such that it states a 4 week notice period but it actually lets them get rid of you on a whim then the law should have an opinion on it.

I read the contract before I signed it and thought 4 weeks notice either way was fair. I know I'd never be negligent in my work so the instant dismissal clause didn't scare me.

One of the reasons a contractor is able to operate in the capacity of a business is because of the risks involved

Either way, you're letting your emotions get in the way of good decision making. Its irrelevant how you feel about the situation, and what you were prepared to do. The notice period is entirely superceded by the 'no timesheets' clause.

You're wasting energy on this now, put your thoughts to better use.

[northernladuk]

Don't they have to show that I was negligent?

Not unless it went legal and they say you didn't perform as an expensive professional should. You say you did. Lawyer gets rich.

[Alex B]

No they don't.

Don't they have to show that I was negligent?

[Alex B]

Every contract is a gamble that you will be walked off from day one.

So take the contract you like the sound off them most then if it is cut short don't get upset.

I know and I'd do the same again in the same circumstances. I'm just explaining that all in all it feels like I've been shafted. I would have walked away with just the 2 weeks if everyone involved hadn't promised to pay the notice period. I would have still been the loser because of the rest of that contract not happening and the fact that I turned down a 3 month gig which would have probably been fine.

It would be interesting to see a judge have a say on all this. I expect most of us mostly walk away from these situations. The little guy doesn't like taking on big business and I'm in a new contract and busy (working from home today lol) so I wonder how often legal action is taken, and I'm guessing probably not very often so agencies feel on very safe ground doing whatever they want. So it may be worth having a go and hoping for a fair bloke or woman on the bench. It's not like I'm asking for anything out of the ordinary or being greedy. I took a job I know I could do well and was prepared to give them the 12 months they signed me up for. Their needs changed, I get it. But that's what the notice period should be for. If the contract is such that it states a 4 week notice period but it actually lets them get rid of you on a whim then the law should have an opinion on it.

I read the contract before I signed it and thought 4 weeks notice either way was fair. I know I'd never be negligent in my work so the instant dismissal clause didn't scare me.

[northernladuk]

Well, I suppose they'd have to prove it

No they don't.

[Alex B]

THIS!!!

Good luck with part 2 though. That said they do fold occasionally, although pulling the instant termination route on you kind of kills that off. That is your word v theirs.

Well, I suppose they'd have to prove it and looking back there is absolutely nothing I did that comes even remotely close to negligence. I wasn't there long enough to do much and what I did do was mostly familiarize myself with the project, so they would have to make up a lot of retrospective tulip to make something stick and to be honest I doubt the client would play that game. Could be wrong of course!

[Alex B]

In that case, split the invoice into two different ones as I suggested. That way the first one has to be paid, and you can argue the second one.

Then, when the second one is late, either get a cheap solicitor to send a debt chasing letter or file a small claims court action against the agency for not paying.

I might do that. Just to satisfy myself I've done what I can. And if I lose I lose.

[SueEllen]

Also, not that it's important, I had two offers on the table. I took the contract I'm discussing here because it was the same money but longer duration. The other one was three months. So I gave up the opportunity of three months work for what turned out to be two weeks. Nothing I can do about that but I do think that I'm clearly the wrong party in all this and it would be nice to rattle a few cages.

Every contract is a gamble that you will be walked off from day one.

So take the contract you like the sound off them most then if it is cut short don't get upset.

[northernladuk]

In that case, split the invoice into two different ones as I suggested. That way the first one has to be paid, and you can argue the second one.

Then, when the second one is late, either get a cheap solicitor to send a debt chasing letter or file a small claims court action against the agency for not paying.

THIS!!!

Good luck with part 2 though. That said they do fold occasionally, although pulling the instant termination route on you kind of kills that off. That is your word v theirs.

[missinggreenfields]

Nothing I can do about that but I do think that I'm clearly the wrong party in all this and it would be nice to rattle a few cages.

In that case, split the invoice into two different ones as I suggested. That way the first one has to be paid, and you can argue the second one.

Then, when the second one is late, either get a cheap solicitor to send a debt chasing letter or file a small claims court action against the agency for not paying.

[northernladuk]

The agency. I know that my contract was with them so all the conversations around payment were with them too, beyond the client saying they were happy to pay notice and that I didn't have to work it. They, the agency, knew there would be no time sheets from me for the 4 week notice period we were discussing but asked me to provide an invoice specifically including the notice so that they could pay me everything in one go. Then it all went quiet. Fine, I understand I had to wait 6 weeks for payment. Then nothing at all appeared. Lots of calls with no one available to talk to me. Then an email saying the invoice they had was wrong because it's for 6 weeks!

Like I said, if they'd said right off, either the client or the agency or both, that all I was getting was the two weeks and why (because they can get away with it!) I probably would've accepted it and moved on. But both said very clearly that the changes on the project came from high up and were nothing to do with me or my work, and that I would be paid the 4 weeks notice and a big sorry, and we'll have you back any time etc.

To then get nothing at all until I've chased it hard, and then to probably not get notice paid is what's pissing me off and if there is something I can do about it I'd like to. Especially as I strongly suspect if I'd bailed out early to take a better off I would have been hit financially by the agency not paying up for the work I did do.

Also, not that it's important, I had two offers on the table. I took the contract I'm discussing here because it was the same money but longer duration. The other one was three months. So I gave up the opportunity of three months work for what turned out to be two weeks. Nothing I can do about that but I do think that I'm clearly the wrong party in all this and it would be nice to rattle a few cages.

The client has no say in what you will get paid. Period. They probably said it in good faith but when it came to the finances the bean counters said not a chance. After all, it should come out of a budget that no longer exists. Gotta get over that.

Missed payment because the invoice is wrong is pretty common, along with agents ineptitude to sort stuff out. I've had this a couple of times. They probably do monthly runs and if you miss one you are in the next and that's that.

The offers thing is irrelevant. You can't beat yourself up about it or be annoyed about what you might have had. That's the nature of what we do. We deal with what's on the plate and then move on. If we sat there thinking back about what if I'd done this or that we'd all be in a mess.

Gotta man up sometimes I am afraid.

[Alex B]

Who is them?

The agency. I know that my contract was with them so all the conversations around payment were with them too, beyond the client saying they were happy to pay notice and that I didn't have to work it. They, the agency, knew there would be no time sheets from me for the 4 week notice period we were discussing but asked me to provide an invoice specifically including the notice so that they could pay me everything in one go. Then it all went quiet. Fine, I understand I had to wait 6 weeks for payment. Then nothing at all appeared. Lots of calls with no one available to talk to me. Then an email saying the invoice they had was wrong because it's for 6 weeks!

Like I said, if they'd said right off, either the client or the agency or both, that all I was getting was the two weeks and why (because they can get away with it!) I probably would've accepted it and moved on. But both said very clearly that the changes on the project came from high up and were nothing to do with me or my work, and that I would be paid the 4 weeks notice and a big sorry, and we'll have you back any time etc.

To then get nothing at all until I've chased it hard, and then to probably not get notice paid is what's pissing me off and if there is something I can do about it I'd like to. Especially as I strongly suspect if I'd bailed out early to take a better off I would have been hit financially by the agency not paying up for the work I did do.

Also, not that it's important, I had two offers on the table. I took the contract I'm discussing here because it was the same money but longer duration. The other one was three months. So I gave up the opportunity of three months work for what turned out to be two weeks. Nothing I can do about that but I do think that I'm clearly the wrong party in all this and it would be nice to rattle a few cages.

[LondonManc]

That's not how the conversation went. They didn't say produce the invoice and and we'll wait for the timesheets or the client to approve them. Everyone knew there would be no timesheets because I would be in no position to access the client system to produce them.

The email exchange went something like, me asking how and when I'll be paid, including the notice period, and them responding that I needed to invoice for the whole amount then it would be paid in 6 weeks because that's how their payment cycle runs. I knew about the 6 weeks already but wasn't sure if they would treat the 6 weeks as a whole amount or pay first 2 and then the 4 on the next run. They said it would be paid in one go.

Who is them?