New to contracting - notice question

[Alex B]

Depends on the contract.. The clue is in the title of what we are

Remember the mantra 'Notice periods are for permies'

I will from now on!!!

[FrontEnder]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm trying to decide if I should try the legal route but don't want to bother if it's going to be a waste of time.

I remember a solicitor telling me ages ago that contract law says contracts have to be fair, so that's something I'm trying to understand - how is it a fair contract that says they have to give me 4 weeks notice if another part of it says that effectively they don't. And what would have happened if there had been no restructuring but I got a better offer elsewhere with an immediate start and left without giving them notice?

It's not that I want to get paid for not doing anything, but I was there and ready to work and would have gladly worked the 4 weeks. They didn't want me to. As I understand the notice period works both ways, for them to sort out a replacement if I leave before the 12 months and for me to get other work if they change their minds or start running out of work.

So is a 12 months contract with a 4 week notice period effectively a zero hour contract? Is this legal? And is the 4 weeks notice binding on the side of the contractor, so basically I'm working on a zero hour contract I have to give 4 weeks notice to be free of?

"Zero hour contracts" are employment contracts. You're not an employee.

But I suppose it is kind of like that. The don't have to give you work. You need to get used to it, if you need that sort of security, you're in the wrong game mate.

[Alex B]

"Zero hour contracts" are employment contracts. You're not an employee.

But I suppose it is kind of like that. The don't have to give you work. You need to get used to it, if you need that sort of security, you're in the wrong game mate.

It's not that. I went into contracting with eyes wide open and know it doesn't give me the same security and protection as a perm role.

I've just got on with life since this contract I'm asking about, but it's been niggling, mainly because they asked for a 6 week invoice after promising to pay notice, I submitted it, and I've had to chase them because they haven't paid anything at all. Now they're saying it's because the invoice is wrong and should only be for 2 weeks! All the while no one is taking my calls and I'm without any money from them at all.

I probably would have left it had they paid the 2 weeks and said that's all you're getting.

But I'm pissed off now and wanted to see if there's anything to be done.

So would would have happened had I had a better offer and wanted to leave with immediate effect?

[Alex B]

One more thing. I'm looking at this bloody contract again and it says that if the contract is going to be terminated for any of the reasons other than negligence on my part the notice period must be given by either party. And that it must be terminated in writing.

So, the contract wasn't terminated in writing until 3 months after it started. And no negligence was mentioned at the time of me leaving, and in fact I have an email asking me for a 6 week invoice, including the 4 week notice period.

I really think that if this went to court it would look how it looks, that the company agreed to pay me off the notice period and told the agency as much, the agency asked for an invoice to support this, then people changed their minds leaving me with, at the moment, nothing.

Yes, no?

[FrontEnder]

It's not that. I went into contracting with eyes wide open and know it doesn't give me the same security and protection as a perm role.

I've just got on with life since this contract I'm asking about, but it's been niggling, mainly because they asked for a 6 week invoice after promising to pay notice, I submitted it, and I've had to chase them because they haven't paid anything at all. Now they're saying it's because the invoice is wrong and should only be for 2 weeks! All the while no one is taking my calls and I'm without any money from them at all.

I probably would have left it had they paid the 2 weeks and said that's all you're getting.

But I'm pissed off now and wanted to see if there's anything to be done.

So would would have happened had I had a better offer and wanted to leave with immediate effect?

From what you've said, I don't think it's worth pursuing, unless there's something very clear in your contract that you'll be paid your notice period. Taking legal action will probably mean you've burnt your bridges with the agency and potentially the end client. If you want to work with them again, this isn't the way to go about it.

I'd just take the 2 weeks, it's all you've worked, so that's fair. They haven't handled it well at all, which is frustrating, but that doesn't change the terms of the original contract.

So would would have happened had I had a better offer and wanted to leave with immediate effect?

Depends what's in your contract. You probably could, but it's not very professional is it? Again, don't hope for any future work from the client if you do this.

[GillsMan]

So would would have happened had I had a better offer and wanted to leave with immediate effect?

Technically, if you did that, the agency would need to pay your invoice and then sue you for losses incurred as a result of you leaving. But in reality a lot of agents would withhold final payments.

I totally understand your viewpoint, especially having been advised (almost certainly incorrectly) to invoice for 6 weeks. Read through your contract. You almost certainly have a clause which falls under the MOO pillar of IR35: they are not obligated to offer you work and you are not obligated to accept. Essentially, this means that notice periods are worthless, which is largely why I have never bothered with negotiating a notice period clause.

My guess is the way your contract was worded you were terminated, given 4 weeks notice (for what it's worth) but then told they did not have any work for you for the next 4 weeks. Perfectly in line with most contracts.

I'd be wary of getting caught up in red herrings: the date of the termination letter doesn't mean much. It's an administrative oversight, but won't help you to get paid more than the 2 weeks for which you have timesheets. Also, it's a shame that "negligence" has been provided as a reason. It's tempting to get pissed at that, but ultimately, ignore it.

I'd reinvoice for 2 weeks, forget about the 4 weeks notice period, and crack on with your next gig. Totally understand where you're coming from, but you will be throwing good money after bad if you try to force payment for time not worked.

With my direct contracts, I have a cancellation clause which ensures I still get paid if a client cancels, but most contractor contracts don't have this - a notice period does not equal a cancellation clause in the vast majority of contractor agreements.

[FrontEnder]

One more thing. I'm looking at this bloody contract again and it says that if the contract is going to be terminated for any of the reasons other than negligence on my part the notice period must be given by either party. And that it must be terminated in writing.

So, the contract wasn't terminated in writing until 3 months after it started. And no negligence was mentioned at the time of me leaving, and in fact I have an email asking me for a 6 week invoice, including the 4 week notice period.

I really think that if this went to court it would look how it looks, that the company agreed to pay me off the notice period and told the agency as much, the agency asked for an invoice to support this, then people changed their minds leaving me with, at the moment, nothing.

Yes, no?

Or they'll produce their own evidence that shows otherwise.

[jmo21]

and the understanding that these and the notice period would be paid.

Exactly how did you come to this understanding that notice period would be paid?

Some project manager said "yeah you'll get your notice period"? The agency?

It sounds like someone promised something they shouldn't have. Do you have proof someone at the client said it?

[GillsMan]

One more thing. I'm looking at this bloody contract again and it says that if the contract is going to be terminated for any of the reasons other than negligence on my part the notice period must be given by either party. And that it must be terminated in writing.

So, the contract wasn't terminated in writing until 3 months after it started. And no negligence was mentioned at the time of me leaving, and in fact I have an email asking me for a 6 week invoice, including the 4 week notice period.

I really think that if this went to court it would look how it looks, that the company agreed to pay me off the notice period and told the agency as much, the agency asked for an invoice to support this, then people changed their minds leaving me with, at the moment, nothing.

Yes, no?

Again, I see your point, but I don't think it's going to get anywhere. The agency will probably (correctly) claim that the agent was mistaken in believing you could invoice for the 4 weeks. But your first point probably does explain why "negligence" was put down as a reason. It's almost certainly the agent mistakenly believing he has to put that down in order not to pay you your notice period.

Most important thing is to check for a MOO clause in your contract. Assuming one exists, then you have no case.

[Alex B]

Exactly how did you come to this understanding that notice period would be paid?

Some project manager said "yeah you'll get your notice period"? The agency?

It sounds like someone promised something they shouldn't have. Do you have proof someone at the client said it?

No. They simply said they would pay it, then the agency said the same thing, then they asked me by email to provide an invoice for six week so they could make the payment, which, I think, confirms that what I'm saying is true. Then months went by and they eventually said the invoice was wrong and terminated the contract.

I know they can manufacture all kinds of stories now about how bad I was and had to be got rid of, but surely there would be some paper trail of that, something in writing if I'd been sacked or even sacked with immediate effect, and the agency wouldn't have been asking me for an invoice including the notice period.

I get where all you guys are coming from that it's probably a waste of time and I very much appreciate all your responses, so don't think I'm disregarding what you're saying. I'm listening!