Originally posted by andromedan
View Post
- Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
- Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!
State of the Market
Collapse
X
Collapse
-
-
Originally posted by andromedan View PostThis might not be the most ideal question since obviously I can search and find the answer myself, but I'm interested in knowing what would be a competitive rate for someone inside IR35 in this particular market. I haven't had any experience with rates for those inside IR35 before, so I'm curious to hear others' opinions in case I decide to explore this option.
IMO, in financial services, a competitive inside rate would be anything above the TC of the perm equivalent which is what they seem to offer. There isn't really a 'risk premium' (I guess you could argue getting a guaranteed bonus and money instead of benefits you may not want).Comment
-
Yes, sorry for being so vague with my previous post. It's for the public sector for a senior frontend role. I was at my previous contract at 650+ outside but it ended in June after 6 months. I think the recruiter quoted me a similar daily rate of 650 (gross rate including employer's and employee's NI, taxes and statutory costs) but it's inside. I would assume around 750 or 800 would be a good rate inside but that may be wishful thinking on my part.
I have 0 requests to do interviews even with 400 outside contracts right now so I'm thinking of expanding my options instead of burning my warchest that took a big hit during the pandemic.Last edited by andromedan; 14 September 2023, 00:24.Comment
-
Originally posted by andromedan View PostYes, sorry for being so vague with my previous post. It's for the public sector for a senior frontend role. I was at my previous contract at 650+ outside but it ended in June after 6 months. I think the recruiter quoted me a similar daily rate of 650 (gross rate including employer's and employee's NI, taxes and statutory costs) but it's inside. I would assume around 750 or 800 would be a good rate inside but that may be wishful thinking on my part.
I have 0 requests to do interviews even with 400 outside contracts right now so I'm thinking of expanding my options instead of burning my warchest that took a big hit during the pandemic.
One way of "improving" the appeal of inside gig is if you're intending to throw a significant chunk into a pension.Comment
-
I've recently started a new hybrid contract in the city of London for a large financial institution as a SQL developer, on a rate of £350/day. This is quite low I think. It was advertised as £400/day (which I thought was low - I was making that 12 years ago), and at the point I was offered the role the service provider intermediary (the agent) dropped it to £350. Since I had had no other interviews after several months on the bench I decided I had better accept it.
Fortunately the role is going well I think (touch wood), is interesting work, so I'm keen to hang on to it if I can.
What is interesting is that after I started the role, the client said to me that they had found it difficult to find anyone, surmising that the market for contractors was strong. I was the only person they had interviewed who they thought could do the job. I replied that I had found the market fairly quiet (an understatement).
I wonder why they dropped the rate then? (I didn't ask).
Is it possible that the intermediary is overcharging the end client such that the end client thinks they are paying a market rate, but the low rate paid to the contractor causes a lack of good contractors prepared to accept the work?
The rate I receive is not subject to IR35 because I am treated as a temp employee rather than a contractor, with the pay directly to me as an individual rather than to a Ltd company or an umbrella company. On top of the £350/day the intermediary pays the employers NI, and payrolls me as an employee (deducting tax and employee NI from the gross rate, paying me net weekly). I guess the £350 is the equivalent of £392 as a gross-fee IR35-caught contract adding on the employers NI. Payrolling me as a temp employee seems like a sensible move because it cuts out the umbrella company "middleman", saving on their fees.
I have a family member who lives in London, where I stay during the week when I'm onsite to save money. Were it not for that fact I might find myself paying £70/night for a cheap hotel in Zone 3, which I would have to fund from my after-tax pay.
I get the bus into the office rather than take the tube as it is cheaper.
So the market is quiet at the moment, very quiet, with rates down in the basement. But it is darkest the hour before the dawn, and things will get better.
Comment
-
Originally posted by GJABS View PostI've recently started a new hybrid contract in the city of London for a large financial institution as a SQL developer, on a rate of £350/day. This is quite low I think. It was advertised as £400/day (which I thought was low - I was making that 12 years ago), and at the point I was offered the role the service provider intermediary (the agent) dropped it to £350. Since I had had no other interviews after several months on the bench I decided I had better accept it.
Fortunately the role is going well I think (touch wood), is interesting work, so I'm keen to hang on to it if I can.
What is interesting is that after I started the role, the client said to me that they had found it difficult to find anyone, surmising that the market for contractors was strong. I was the only person they had interviewed who they thought could do the job. I replied that I had found the market fairly quiet (an understatement).
I wonder why they dropped the rate then? (I didn't ask).
Is it possible that the intermediary is overcharging the end client such that the end client thinks they are paying a market rate, but the low rate paid to the contractor causes a lack of good contractors prepared to accept the work?
The rate I receive is not subject to IR35 because I am treated as a temp employee rather than a contractor, with the pay directly to me as an individual rather than to a Ltd company or an umbrella company. On top of the £350/day the intermediary pays the employers NI, and payrolls me as an employee (deducting tax and employee NI from the gross rate, paying me net weekly). I guess the £350 is the equivalent of £392 as a gross-fee IR35-caught contract adding on the employers NI. Payrolling me as a temp employee seems like a sensible move because it cuts out the umbrella company "middleman", saving on their fees.
I have a family member who lives in London, where I stay during the week when I'm onsite to save money. Were it not for that fact I might find myself paying £70/night for a cheap hotel in Zone 3, which I would have to fund from my after-tax pay.
I get the bus into the office rather than take the tube as it is cheaper.
So the market is quiet at the moment, very quiet, with rates down in the basement. But it is darkest the hour before the dawn, and things will get better.
I follow most big companies in the financial sector, all have cut their rates by about 20% from 2022. It's the nature of the beast for contractors (although its the same for permies, instead of offering top of the salary range they are now offering middle or below). Recruiters are getting absurd number of applications but vast majority are 'spray and pray'.
IME you have to take what clients say with a pinch of salt. Last week I had interview feedback from a relatively small company that I was 'More suited to a junior role', whilst granted I'm not 'old' my experience speaks for it's self, ie, reporting directly into several international bank national board level executives and budgets in the 10s of millions and many dozens of resources.
Fortunately I have stumbled upon an old client's project that is right in my wheelhouse. Significant pay cut but would solidify a new skillset (that I actually find interesting_. Considering there is a half dozen senior managers who would vouch for me at the company I probably just cry if I don't get it. FTSE 100 are ***** though.Comment
-
Originally posted by GJABS View PostWhat is interesting is that after I started the role, the client said to me that they had found it difficult to find anyone
£80K (£40per hour) was the going rate in the City in the mid 90s, 30 years ago!
They are not going to get many or any good CVs for that rate. If you are any good then they got lucky.Last edited by Fraidycat; 17 September 2023, 13:23.Comment
-
Originally posted by fiisch View PostAnother contractor turned permie considering a return - but having contacted my network of reliable agents, there seems to be a wealth of BA contracts in the insurance world with rates of £6-700pd, mostly outside IR35. Certainly, enough to give me confidence to hand in my notice in the morning and start applying.
Rates compare favourably to my current permie salary of £98k - I know many would stay stick with the security of the perm job, but the politics is driving me bonkers and the work is truly soul-destroying and in a slightly different area to that which I enjoyed previously as a contractor... I've been agonising over this decision for much of 2023, but I think ultimately working as a contractor suits me much better.I also know that from the other side of the table, we struggled to find good quality BA's this year offering £600p/d outside IR35.
I must admit though that I am finding the process of getting a contract emotionally draining - I don't get nervous before interviews anymore (I've had too many over the span of my career for that) and I'm only in the early stages of looking having recently given notice, but I've really not been myself this week. I'm lucky in that I don't suffer with any mental health/anxiety issues *touches wood*, but this week is the closest I've ever come to having feelings of anxiety. Maybe it's anxiety over leaving the relative security of a perm position, but in my head I'm very comfortable with my decision (or at least I think I am!).
Comment
-
Originally posted by fiisch View Post
Handed my notice in on Thursday (which I think wasn't wholly unexpected but not taken particularly well) and phoned a couple of agents I know to be useful. Had three interviews since Friday so fingers crossed... The market seems red hot to me - perhaps this is industry dependent going by some other recent comments on this thread, but I've managed to stir up plenty of interest without applying in anger/visiting the job forums. I'd love to say that's because of the quality of my CV and sparkling personality, but I've only been a BA for 7 years so it's more likely reflective of the market rather than my CV....I also know that from the other side of the table, we struggled to find good quality BA's this year offering £600p/d outside IR35.
I must admit though that I am finding the process of getting a contract emotionally draining - I don't get nervous before interviews anymore (I've had too many over the span of my career for that) and I'm only in the early stages of looking having recently given notice, but I've really not been myself this week. I'm lucky in that I don't suffer with any mental health/anxiety issues *touches wood*, but this week is the closest I've ever come to having feelings of anxiety. Maybe it's anxiety over leaving the relative security of a perm position, but in my head I'm very comfortable with my decision (or at least I think I am!).Comment
-
Originally posted by TheDude View Post
I'd have got a contract first then resigned - assuming you don't have a ridiculous notice period.
I suspect there will be some flexibility in that if and when I secure a contract, but I thought it'd be better to give notice and say "I am going to do X" rather than "I've got a contract and I need to be gone by XX"...
Comment
Partners
- Home
- News & Features
- First Timers
- IR35 / S660 / BN66
- Employee Benefit Trusts
- Agency Workers Regulations
- MSC Legislation
- Limited Companies
- Dividends
- Umbrella Company
- VAT / Flat Rate VAT
- Job News & Guides
- Money News & Guides
- Guide to Contracts
- Successful Contracting
- Contracting Overseas
- Contractor Calculators
- MVL
- Contractor Expenses
Advertisers
Contractor Services
CUK News
- Streamline Your Retirement with iSIPP: A Solution for Contractor Pensions Sep 1 09:13
- Making the most of pension lump sums: overview for contractors Sep 1 08:36
- Umbrella company tribunal cases are opening up; are your wages subject to unlawful deductions, too? Aug 31 08:38
- Contractors, relabelling 'labour' as 'services' to appear 'fully contracted out' won't dupe IR35 inspectors Aug 31 08:30
- How often does HMRC check tax returns? Aug 30 08:27
- Work-life balance as an IT contractor: 5 top tips from a tech recruiter Aug 30 08:20
- Autumn Statement 2023 tipped to prioritise mental health, in a boost for UK workplaces Aug 29 08:33
- Final reminder for contractors to respond to the umbrella consultation (closing today) Aug 29 08:09
- Top 5 most in demand cyber security contract roles Yesterday 08:38
- Changes to the right to request flexible working are incoming, but how will contractors be affected? Aug 24 08:25
Comment