State of the Market

[Bluenose]

Google any CEO and look how many jobs they are holding down at the same time, yet it's shady/unprofessional if us plebs do it?

the implication was double billing aka timesheet fraud on low end contracts. Those in C suite could do that too but why risk the gravy train at 3k per hour ?

[JustKeepSwimming]

the implication was double billing aka timesheet fraud on low end contracts. Those in C suite could do that too but why risk the gravy train at 3k per hour ?

Whilst strictly true I don't believe it would hold up in court. Timesheet systems are one sizes fits all. IME timesheets are not an accurate reflection of genuine time worked to allocation. I believe it would pivot on a substantive analysis of the role.

Most contracts are for 'professional working day' and not for individual hours worked, despite many timesheets system requiring timesheets for individual hours. In addition most system do not allow for timesheets above a set number of hours (7 or 8) or anything more than '1 working day'.

A company would struggle to argue that a timesheet system is accurate if it does not allow for the meridian (don't think this is the right word) of standard variations, such as overtime which most workers do at some point.

IME timesheet systems are deployed for the purposes of tracking project costs and not ensuring resource compliance with contract.

There is almost always a clear customs and practice that resources do timesheets to projects they are assigned to regardless of what they actually work, with the exception of holiday/sick.

(And that doesn't take into account the old 'prove it', unless a company is particularly vicious and going for fast track+ there is simply no way they are getting hold of any documents that prove timesheet fraud. Considering if those documents showed that the 'fraud' began well before they noticed, or heaven forbid prior to any contract extension, then any claim of recoverable losses are dead in the water and the lose)

[SussexSeagull]

Don't mind working extra if there is a deadline but won't do it day in day out and like to have client expectations managed early on in a contract.

The worst contract I ever had for clock watching was also the worst paid I ever had and the only one I ever terminated early. Most clients give and take, although I have never worked in finance.

[JustKeepSwimming]

Don't mind working extra if there is a deadline but won't do it day in day out and like to have client expectations managed early on in a contract.

The worst contract I ever had for clock watching was also the worst paid I ever had and the only one I ever terminated early. Most clients give and take, although I have never worked in finance.

There is definitely something to be said for working 'extra' every now and again. I've done calls at 7pm before with a senior manager working to deadline to walk them through something simple, for me, but not for them. It built massive goodwill and I just took the time back elsewhere. Things like 'I need XYZ by 8pm Friday', nah Chief, the meeting for that is Wednesday, you can get it Monday.

Worst contract/manager I had was the best paid. Absolute nasty bully of a rut of a man. Quit and sent an email to HR clearly expressing he was a nasty **** and to absolutely under no circumstance place junior staff under him.

[TheGreenBastard]

I don't time watch and if I need to do extra hours I do. Had a very busy period lately and everyone including the contractors has had to step up. Doing what needs to be done inc extra hours has kept me in a contract for two years and it's been the reason at least two of the other contractors have been let go. In both cases it's taken a bit of time for them to get extra gigs. I'm a mug? Not so.

Granted if it wasn't getting me any benefit I'd be pushing back but it's worked out very well for me this time.

What has it got you? Continuation of a contract already agreed to? Still sounds muggish to me, nice sword of Damocles threat by the slave owner too; occasionally letting a few contractors go, keep the rest sweating and keen to impress (which you regurgitate here as if it's something to be proud of).

[TheGreenBastard]

Whilst strictly true I don't believe it would hold up in court. Timesheet systems are one sizes fits all. IME timesheets are not an accurate reflection of genuine time worked to allocation. I believe it would pivot on a substantive analysis of the role.

Most contracts are for 'professional working day' and not for individual hours worked, despite many timesheets system requiring timesheets for individual hours. In addition most system do not allow for timesheets above a set number of hours (7 or 8) or anything more than '1 working day'.

Exactly, the law doesn't look at the design of timesheet systems and work backwards; it's a catch all for all kinds of work arrangements.

You'll struggle to find a single case of "timesheet fraud" on record; it only exists in permietractors heads (who work 2 year long contracts, working extra hours, and thank their masser when they're not culled).

[eek]

What has it got you? Continuation of a contract already agreed to? Still sounds muggish to me, nice sword of Damocles threat by the slave owner too; occasionally letting a few contractors go, keep the rest sweating and keen to impress (which you regurgitate here as if it's something to be proud of).

Renewal of contract - look at it like permanent employment using the old GE approach. The bottom x% are removed at renewal because their face doesn't fit or because the company thinks they can find better options if they advertise for a replacement.

Remember the criteria that makes us self employed means that we need to be substitute(able). Which means that a company can and will look at contractors and say - hmm he isn't pulling his weight so we can replace him.

The one thing I was always good at earlier in my career was making sure I delivered enough that I was going to be renewed.

[Paralytic]

I don't time watch and if I need to do extra hours I do. Had a very busy period lately and everyone including the contractors has had to step up. Doing what needs to be done inc extra hours has kept me in a contract for two years and it's been the reason at least two of the other contractors have been let go. In both cases it's taken a bit of time for them to get extra gigs. I'm a mug? Not so.

If you're paid via a hourly/daily rate, rather than via an SoW/deliverables, it sounds like they're treating you like staff, and you're letting them.

[DrewG]

. Doing what needs to be done inc extra hours has kept me in a contract for two years

This is a scarcity mentality, fearful of losing your job so you make inappropriate sacrifices.

[eek]

This is a scarcity mentality, fearful of losing your job so you make inappropriate sacrifices.

Seen the current market - good luck not meeting your clients expectations..