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State of the Market

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    #71
    Originally posted by Drei View Post
    If you come from a technical background you may well know all of that, specialising in being jack of all trades is nothing wrong. Not sure about you guys but I started building servers and coding in my bedroom when I was 12. At that time it was mainly custom computers and mods for games. Was technology a passion for you? Or was it a simple Y2K boom because everyone did it for the "money"?

    I was told by people than when I do a job they can see it is different, not the same mechanical action that every joe blogs does. I like to believe that I put a little bit of my soul in every work/project I do and that's why they last.

    I am a PM at core now but come from a heavy tech background. Just didn't enjoy the solitude and change in technology that came with it. I love talking to the clients and being at the front. Advantage is that I can talk to any of the technical teams and know exactly what they say or if they are pulling my leg. Can also be hands on if needed or there is a lack of resources. Plenty of PMs that have no idea whats what and just tick boxes. Lots of project that were successful from a delivery perspective but failed in the long.




    Going back to the market question, I have seen over the last few months that clients are trying to fill in perm roles instead of contracts however the big issue I can see is that there are plenty of projects planned or approved but no resources approved. The market has plenty of work but it is currently stagnating.
    I get the usefulness of the tech knowledge to make a strong PM.
    I just very much doubt you could do all the roles you listed at the penultimate level.
    I too can perform a number of roles, however, I don't think I could do the whole list excellently.
    To perform excellently you have to specialise. You are saying how good you are, then slightly contradict that when you say you are a Jack of All Trades, IMO.
    The Chunt of Chunts.

    Comment


      #72
      Originally posted by CompulsiveArsonist View Post
      Speaking purely from my own experience, in my two most recent banking projects the teams have been re-organised getting rid of one extra layer of management. I've also seen less reliance on using BAs which could mean there will be less demand for BA roles in the future. The thinking goes that the developer can sit with the trading desk and find out what needs to be built, so why use a BA to act as a middleman? Another thing that has happened is that teams are getting merged together, so one PM is managing a larger team.
      This is one of reasons Agile is being pushed these days, BA and PM tend to disappear and the load moves onto dev team and business.

      Comment


        #73
        Originally posted by MrMarkyMark View Post
        To perform excellently you have to specialise. You are saying how good you are, then slightly contradict that when you say you are a Jack of All Trades, IMO.
        This.


        Weird & Niche wins every time - as long as you're good.
        I'm perfect, in a very specific and limited way.
        Hands... out infractions
        Face... the music
        Space... between the ears

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          #74
          Originally posted by WTFH View Post
          This.


          Weird & Niche wins every time - as long as you're good.
          Are you sure you shouldn't have posted this is your "other" forum
          The Chunt of Chunts.

          Comment


            #75
            Originally posted by MrMarkyMark View Post
            To perform excellently you have to specialise. You are saying how good you are, then slightly contradict that when you say you are a Jack of All Trades, IMO.
            You might be right about that but as rjoe pointed out sometimes it is beyond that. Think of a marine or SAS, I am sure as hell THEY are not just great at shooting, hand to hand combat, whatever else they are great at. They are great at all of those skills. They are the best of the best because of all those skills combined.

            One thing you cannot do well is 3 4 roles at once full time. I have had to fill in a Consultant/BA/PM role and boy I couldn't do any right as I just didn't have the time or energy to do so.

            The problem is that agencies don't know what to do with people like me and rjoe. Unfortunately in today's mediocre market people have no idea what a "jack of all trades" can do. Everything is mediocre these days, services, products and people.


            People cannot comprehend how someone can be good at more than one thing. They also assume that technology is extremely complicated when it is pretty much the same these days. If you understand the back end and how things work you pretty much good to go. They think kids are tech savvy when actually they are all tech illiterates as everything is made so damn easy, pretty much everything is plug and play.

            Plenty of PMs call themselves Tech PMs because they did some tech project not because they actually have the technical knowledge.


            Anyone ever watched a movie called Idiocracy? That's where we are heading.


            Sorry for the rant but kinda getting annoyed.
            Last edited by Drei; 27 May 2016, 14:16.

            Comment


              #76
              Originally posted by Drei View Post
              You might be right about that but as rjoe pointed out sometimes it is beyond that. Think of a marine or SAS, I am sure as hell THEY are not just great at shooting, hand to hand combat, whatever else they are great at. They are great at all of those skills. They are the best of the best because of all those skills combined.


              One thing you cannot do well is 3 4 roles at once. I have had to fill in a Consultant/BA/PM role and boy I couldn't do any right as I just didn't have the time or energy to do so.

              The problem is that agencies don't know what to do with people like me and rjoe. Unfortunately in today's mediocre market people have no idea what a "jack of all trades" can do. Everything is mediocre these days, services, products and people.

              This is something the West has encouraged since the 80/90s, specialising in ONE area only. For example in Russia and Eastern Europe everyone had to know everything. A levels in UK are 3, in EU you get the BAC which has 12 subjects... yeah 12 not 3 and these people are a hell lot more prepare and better than the majority of westerners. But they are also getting there now (becoming incompetent).

              People cannot comprehend how someone can be good at more than one thing. They also assume that technology is extremely complicated when it is pretty much the same these days. They think kids are tech savvy when actually they are all tech illiterates as everything is made so damn easy, pretty much everything is plug and play.


              Anyone ever watched a movie called Idiocracy? That's where we are heading.


              Sorry for the rant but kinda getting annoyed.
              I'm am feeling this. This is correct. So many places just want to sit you doing one thing but in reality you might be able to do 3 or 4 things to a decent standard.

              Comment


                #77
                You're preaching a lot of what I believe myself.
                However, I will state again I do not believe you can do all those role excellently, or at least to my expectations.
                The Chunt of Chunts.

                Comment


                  #78
                  Originally posted by MrMarkyMark View Post
                  You're preaching a lot of what I believe myself.
                  However, I will state again I do not believe you can do all those role excellently, or at least to my expectations.
                  Gotta meet the right person. Remember what I said, can do 3 4 roles at a time but not all at once. If someone expects you to do all of them brilliantly, they would be disappointing. This is what happens when you have less resources or people get laid off. That work goes on to someone else and they would struggle to perform two jobs at once.


                  Please be aware that I am excluding specialist such as coders, engineers etc. That is a different kind of specialist and even if I understand their work I would not be able to do what they do.


                  MrMarkyMark if you do need a particular skill on a specific project then yes a specialist would be the better choice. Let's say I am a great athlete, good all rounder at just about every sport and I get put toe a toe vs a runner. I doubt I would be able to beat him.
                  Thing is from experience you never need just one specialist on a project because no project goes according to plan, so you may need someone that can tackle all forms of terrain. Depends on the client need at the end of the day. If you have the budget to fill every single role with a specials, that is great.
                  Last edited by Drei; 27 May 2016, 14:41.

                  Comment


                    #79
                    Originally posted by Drei View Post
                    Think of a marine or SAS, I am sure as hell THEY are not just great at shooting, hand to hand combat, whatever else they are great at. They are great at all of those skills. They are the best of the best because of all those skills combined.
                    .
                    I've seen some pretty daft comparisons on my time here but that one has to be the all time winner.
                    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

                    Comment


                      #80
                      It's a no brainer that people cannot do a few roles, simultaneously, and to quality. However, it doesn't mean that an individual cannot do 3 or 4 different types of roles to an excellent standard. You have to draw a line between what is humanly possible and what is not. Simple.

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